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« 2019-07-11

2019-07-12

2019-07-13 »

Nick Message Date
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martiansoul what does this cron value "0 30 */3 * * *" in spring-boot mean? [03:35]
Maldivia martiansoul: https://www.baeldung.com/cron-expressions [03:38]
Maldivia Maldivia's title: "A Guide To Cron Expressions | Baeldung" [03:38]
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LaSombra Interesting... [03:48]
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devish Does a spring interceptor executes for all the requests made? [04:05]
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devish Answering myself..Yes [04:19]
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tmxcax hello [05:09]
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masuberu hi, I have an issue with my tomcat application where it becomes unresponsive and I need reboot it every 3-4 days. I think I have a memory leak problem. Is there a command I can run locally to dump the memory snapshot to analyse later? [05:32]
yawkat jmap [05:33]
Maldivia or jcmd, or attach visualvm -- many ways [05:33]
masuberu I tried to connect visualvm to the remote machine but it is giving me an error, however I can telnet to remote_ip:port I had this issue in the past and I fixed it rebooting tomcat but I don't want to restart it yet [05:34]
masuberu ok I will try jmap and jcmd [05:34]
Maldivia masuberu: well, visualvm needs to attack to the jmx port, if doing it remotely [05:35]
Maldivia don't know if that was the port you were trying on [05:35]
mbooth "attack the jmx port" -- sounds right :-) [05:37]
masuberu http://dpaste.com/3MWVPST [05:38]
Maldivia masuberu: are you running it as the same user that owns the java process+ [05:40]
Maldivia also, make sure that the version of the jmap/jcmd tool you use is from the jvm version that you're trying to attach to [05:41]
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masuberu ok, so please let me know if I am wrong... I am planning to tell cron to run jmap -heal <pid> every4 hours and dump it into a text file. I should check that 'PS Old Generation' does not increase over time and stays stable. Am I right? [05:50]
masuberu I mean, if % used in the old generation is always increasing means I have a memory leak issue? [05:51]
Maldivia not neccesarily [05:52]
Maldivia just because the memory usage increases doesn't mean it's a leak; it could be intentional [05:54]
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masuberu Maldivia, ok but if it increases until the free space is close to 0 and tomcat becomes unresponsive? [05:56]
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masuberu so what should I do to address this issue? [05:57]
masuberu or to identify a memory leak issue? [05:58]
Maldivia well, if it's intended behavior, give more memory :D if it's not, figure out what's causing it and fix it [05:58]
Maldivia mat [05:58]
Maldivia Maldivia, mat is the Memory Analyzer Tool, available as an eclipse plugin or as a standalone app. http://www.eclipse.org/mat/ [05:58]
Maldivia use MAT to analyze the heap dumps; and see where the memory is [05:59]
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dob1 hi, I am using this http://www.simplejavamail.org to send mail in my linux box, the problem is that it creates multi-part mails and I can't read them with mail [06:00]
dob1 (mail the command) [06:00]
Maldivia then don't create multi part emails [06:03]
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hassoon|work 'morning [06:39]
surial morning [06:40]
hassoon|work I have french accented strings in e.g an application.properties file, i don't get to render them correctly in utf8 format, when i call/import variables from that one file, they show up as irregular strange characters [06:42]
hassoon|work knowing that summaryPart1 is my string, i did this: byte[] bytes = summaryPart1.getBytes(Charset.forName("UTF-8"));String str = new String(bytes, Charset.forName("UTF-8")); [06:42]
hassoon|work but str is still not formatted to utf8 [06:42]
dob1 Maldivia, I can't read the mail it creates with mail / mailx [06:42]
hassoon|work how should i achieve that [06:42]
dob1 Maldivia, I read the javadoc but I don't find any option to disable this [06:43]
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surial hassoon|work: It's StandardCharsets.UTF_* [06:48]
surial UTF_8 I mean [06:48]
surial hassoon|work: UTF-8 is not a 'format'. [06:49]
surial hassoon|work: and obviously, turning a string into bytes as per encoding X and then those bytes back to a string as per enocding X, is a no-op. [06:49]
surial that always gets you the same string (or an error, if the string contains chars not encodable in X). [06:49]
surial hassoon|work: the string you have, that looks fucked up? You're already lost. [06:49]
hassoon|work surial: ah :o [06:49]
surial hassoon|work: where-ever you got that string? THAT is where you pass in UTF_8. YOu can't fix it afterwards (you can try by going string to bytes using whatever encoding it was read as, then those bytes back to string via UTF_8, but no guarantees if that will actually work, depends on which encodings and which chars). [06:50]
hassoon|work surial: so it's not totally possible ? [06:51]
dreamreal show us [06:51]
dreamreal dob1, Paste the code (and any errors) in a pastebin where we can see it. See ~pastebin for options. Also see ~testcase for good examples as to how to help us help you quickly diagnose and solve problems. [06:51]
dreamreal dob1: and it may be that it ALWAYS creates a multipart mail. Check the source, or ask the author. [06:53]
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dob1 dreamreal, the code is this: https://pastebin.com/B5PXj846 really simple, what I get is a multipart message that I can't read with mail/mailx [07:03]
dob1 I can read it with mutt/alpine [07:04]
dreamreal yeah, well, check the source - or ask the author what's up. It could be that that mail lib doesn't create mails without them being multipart. mail/mailx, of course, ain't all that... but that shouldn't matter. [07:05]
dob1 dreamreal, ok I will see if there is some way to contact the author [07:05]
dreamreal he says to ask stackoverflow or github [07:06]
dob1 I will ask on stackoverflow later [07:06]
dreamreal looking casually at teh source implies that it does in fact mandate mime multipart [07:09]
dob1 dreamreal, always? [07:10]
dreamreal https://github.com/bbottema/simple-java-mail/blob/develop/modules/core-module/src/main/java/org/simplejavamail/api/email/Email.java [07:10]
dreamreal dreamreal's title: "simple-java-mail/Email.java at develop bbottema/simple-java-mail GitHub" [07:10]
dreamreal https://github.com/bbottema/simple-java-mail/blob/develop/modules/simple-java-mail/src/main/java/org/simplejavamail/mailer/internal/mailsender/MailSenderImpl.java#L233 <-- more importantly [07:13]
dreamreal dreamreal's title: "simple-java-mail/MailSenderImpl.java at develop bbottema/simple-java-mail GitHub" [07:13]
dob1 ah, so it's by default [07:14]
dob1 and there is no way to change it... [07:14]
dreamreal of course, this is a very casual scan, so I wouldn't take my word as being canonical. I don't think I've ever seen this library before. [07:14]
dob1 well when you find an easy to use library there is always something that doesn't work [07:16]
dreamreal eh [07:16]
dob1 I can't use java mail to send a simple mail to my linux box... I prefer to invoke the mail command via a process or whatever [07:17]
dreamreal dob1: you can't... use... JAVAMAIL to send a simple email? [07:17]
Maldivia well, you could also use a mail client that understands multi part... [07:17]
dreamreal I'm betting you're wrong [07:17]
dob1 dreamreal, I can for sure, but it's a waste of time imho, configuration, properties to just send a mail to localhost [07:18]
dreamreal I mean, I guess maybe you're unable to, but javamail can certainly do it [07:18]
dreamreal dob1: sure, do whatever works for you [07:18]
dreamreal It sounds like simplejavamail can't do it by design, but that doesn't mean the other APIs have the same limitations [07:19]
dob1 Maldivia, yes, the other option is this. [07:19]
dob1 dreamreal, but it is simple :) [07:19]
dreamreal so is commons-email [07:19]
dob1 you see ? 10 lines to do send a mail, with java mail how many lines? [07:19]
dreamreal dob1: what's your point? [07:19]
Maldivia if you just set text of the email, you see what in your client? [07:20]
dreamreal I mean, I don't know, I don't remember javamail having all that much of a difficult API [07:20]
dreamreal so it really comes down to you, your preferences, and your requirements [07:20]
dob1 Maldivia, I can read it via mutt/alpine [07:20]
dreamreal just get it done, if it works it works, in the end [07:20]
dob1 I will take a look at commons-mail later [07:20]
dreamreal we don't care how much code you write or don't write, I wouldn't think [07:21]
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dob1 dreamreal, maybe I can be wrong :) [07:23]
dreamreal about what [07:23]
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dob1 dreamreal, about javamail to be more difficult to use [07:25]
dob1 for the task I have to do [07:25]
dob1 anyway commons-mail seems ok, I have to test it https://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-email/userguide.html [07:26]
dob1 dob1's title: "Commons Email Examples" [07:26]
dreamreal It's more low-level than the other APIs. If you need precise control, it's the API to use. OTOH, you get to work very close to the wire. The wrapper APIs like simplejavamail and commons-mail use it under the hood. [07:26]
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dreamreal glad to hear you've succeeded [09:17]
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netcrash Hello I'm trying to import a keystore into cacerts , it requests me for a password which none of the stores has. I place the password empty and it fails. Any ideas? [09:52]
tang^ cacerts password is 'changeme' by default [09:57]
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netcrash keytool error: java.io.IOException: Keystore was tampered with, or password was incorrect [10:03]
freeone3000 'changeit', not 'changeme' [10:07]
tang^ oh sorry [10:14]
gbobby also, if you're as annoyed as I am by keytool, you might want to try keystore explorer [10:17]
gbobby it's written in Java, quite a nice GUI for working with keystores [10:17]
gbobby has worked pretty well for me so far [10:18]
netcrash tang^: no problem, thanks the same [10:18]
netcrash gbobby: going to check , thank you [10:18]
dreamreal gbobby: put that in the bot, if it works [10:19]
gbobby if I knew how to use the bot, I would - but maybe that's my chance to learn it ;) [10:21]
dreamreal help [10:21]
dreamreal for a FAQ and a quick tutorial on how to use javabot, see: https://github.com/evanchooly/javabot/wiki [10:21]
gbobby thanks :) [10:21]
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pikapika Is jsp "full Java" or is it a limited templating language? [10:27]
dreamreal yes [10:28]
dreamreal I don't know what you mean by "full java" though [10:28]
cheeser jsp is a templating language. full stop. [10:28]
dreamreal and it's limited! [10:28]
pikapika Full Java as in any valid Java can be placed inside such as class declarations etc [10:28]
dreamreal yes, you can do that [10:29]
pikapika So where is the "controller logic" meant to be placed then? [10:29]
dreamreal you really shouldn't though [10:29]
dreamreal mvc [10:29]
dreamreal dreamreal, mvc is http://ootips.org/mvc-pattern.html -- For GUI development, examples include the Smalltalk libraries and Swing. For web applications, see Spring or one of the multitude of other frameworks [10:29]
dreamreal pikapika: what normally happens is a servlet handles the request and routes to a template renderer (which might be JSP?) for rendering [10:29]
pikapika How about the case where one does not want to use a big framework like spring [10:29]
pikapika Okay [10:29]
dreamreal a JSP that has lots of java code in it is a horror [10:29]
pikapika So the main logic happens in a servlet [10:30]
pikapika and jsp handles the view [10:30]
dreamreal pikapika: do what works. [10:30]
pikapika Of course [10:30]
pikapika But I wish to avoid php style code in html/html in code stuff [10:30]
dreamreal well, note that JSP is kinda lame... if you're interested in doing things well, you'd look at wicket, or javascript on the client, not worry about your web presentation layer in java [10:30]
dreamreal pikapika: well, so .. you want to avoid JSP then [10:30]
pikapika I see [10:31]
dreamreal wicket [10:31]
dreamreal dreamreal, wicket is a component based web application framework written in java. See http://wicket.apache.org or ##wicket for more details [10:31]
pikapika I wish to avoid js rendering though, fuck that kind of bloat [10:31]
pikapika Server side rendering only [10:31]
dreamreal shrugs. In the end, users find apps like that to be ... odd [10:31]
dreamreal good luck [10:31]
dreamreal gotta jet [10:31]
pikapika Depends on the kind of app [10:34]
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netcrash looks like keystore does the job well and it works [10:54]
iamNOTadog hi friends [10:55]
iamNOTadog anyone know of a realtively fast java ide? [10:55]
iamNOTadog my pc is trash and it takes ages to save a project or just use eclipse in general [10:55]
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cheeser idea [10:56]
cheeser IntelliJ IDEA is an open source Java IDE that has free and non-free versions. It is the IDE of choice for many in this channel. See http://www.jetbrains.com/idea/. Questions about this can be asked in #idea-users. Also ask me about ~ide for alternatives. [10:56]
cheeser netbeans [10:56]
cheeser cheeser, netbeans is Oracle's standard Java IDE. See http://www.netbeans.org/ and/or download this http://library.dzone.com/sites/all/files/refcardz/rc014-netbeanside68.pdf Also ask me about ~ide for alternatives. [10:56]
mbooth iamNOTadog: Hardware is nearly always cheaper than your time ;-) [10:57]
mbooth But I guess dogs have a hard time carrying cash, what with not having pockets [10:58]
iamNOTadog ... [10:59]
iamNOTadog w-who are you calling a dog [10:59]
iamNOTadog im not a dog [10:59]
mbooth My mistake [10:59]
iamNOTadog k [10:59]
iamNOTadog is jGRASP any good? [11:00]
iamNOTadog internet says its lightweight and internet never lies [11:00]
mbooth Never heard of it [11:00]
freeone3000 It looks like JGrasp is an alternative Java plugin for Eclipse instead of the Java plugin for Eclipse. [11:02]
freeone3000 Seems like adding a carbon fiber hood to a semi, tbh. [11:03]
sbalmos freeone3000: hey, but if that carbon fiber hood increases the airflow to the engine, that increases horsepower, and MOAR POWAH! [11:04]
sbalmos freeone3000: Plus, carbon fiber is even easier than steel to slice your hand on and not know it [11:04]
mbooth There's always VSCode, but the Java support is just the Eclipse JDT underneath anyway, so.... [11:07]
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sbeex hi guys, I would like to log some audit logs like user A changed its password, user B created a new article named XYZ at this time, etc. I have seen audit4j do you have other libs under the hood ? I am thinking about writing my own appender in order to store some meta data audited values in a fluent style (and generate some XML structured) but if something exists already then lets use it [11:22]
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pikapika Is there any good java ide written in C++ or something? [11:44]
pikapika The ones written in Java seem to be rather resource heavy [11:44]
ron do you use a computer from 2003? [11:45]
pikapika 4gb of ram is too little these days apparently [11:45]
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cheeser tech support [11:47]
cheeser Hello, ##java is not a technical support channel for your Java apps or virtual machines; it's a development channel for enthusiasts to discuss programming with the Java language. Please ask the vendor of your software for support if you're having trouble with it. [11:47]
ernimril pikapika, is it for private or for a job? if job gets you 4GB or RAM as a developer I strongly suggest that you find another place to work [11:47]
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cheeser you've been given the list of java ides used by most devs here. if your hardware is too weak to use them, upgrade. [11:47]
ernimril pikapika, if it is private then upgrade your memory [11:47]
sbalmos s/memory/PC/ [11:48]
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pikapika Personal machine [11:52]
pikapika ernimril [11:52]
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freeone3000 VSCode + JDT should come in under that? [12:16]
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freeone3000 I think there's also AIDE for Android devices, which usually have a bit more RAM nowadays but that should be able to scale down better. [12:17]
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roboirc anybody try pircbotx on java yet? [01:29]
Zarthus as opposed to trying it on python? [01:30]
roboirc hahha Zarthus your on her too [01:30]
roboirc here too :P [01:30]
mike802 i heard all of python is a scam [01:30]
mike802 is that true [01:30]
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roboirc ask python chan [01:33]
mike802 that's ok, i get enough tensor flow reruns in the news [01:35]
roboirc Zarthus just trying to try pircbotx on android java ... [01:36]
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Zarthus you might want to note this is not an android channel [01:36]
roboirc yes but java = java :P [01:37]
ron yes, but android != java :p [01:37]
roboirc doesn't hurt to ask [01:37]
roboirc k let me try android chan cya [01:42]
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kicked progart (Banned: please fix your connection. you're bouncing in and out. this ban will expire after 2h) [02:21]
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vbgunz_ hello fellas, remember yesterday a long winded conversation about maybe all the knowledge here should write a book? [02:40]
vbgunz_ a wiki or something? [02:40]
Zarthus what [02:40]
cheeser yes? [02:40]
vbgunz_ well it looked like a bunch of people here just jumped on the idea to write the "final" link to learning java... it was wild but responsive [02:40]
cheeser ? [02:41]
vbgunz_ anyhow, I say call it "the 20% of everything you should know" and focus on that 20% that everybody should know [02:41]
vbgunz_ haha [02:41]
vbgunz_ I think book problems today is they teach you everything as if you're really going to learn everything. truth is, it's bullshit. there is a 20% of java everybody should know, focus on that [02:42]
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freeone3000 k, which 20% is that? We do hello world, then what? Classpath? Modules? Okay, cool, now what? [02:44]
freeone3000 Threads, I guess. Networking. Testing and program validation. [02:45]
velix I know, this isn't #oracle, but maybe anyone of you can help. I need to run a java based applet on a server. I need a commercial license for this. Can I buy a single license? Oracle is known to sell 500 license, evenif you need one only. [02:45]
dreamreal irc [02:45]
freeone3000 velix: We're not Oracle. [02:45]
cheeser tech support [02:45]
cheeser velix, Hello, ##java is not a technical support channel for your Java apps or virtual machines; it's a development channel for enthusiasts to discuss programming with the Java language. Please ask the vendor of your software for support if you're having trouble with it. [02:45]
dreamreal applets [02:45]
dreamreal dreamreal, applets is Check the topic, and read http://javachannel.org/no-applets/ In short, don't use them because soon nothing will exist to run them - even Oracle says so: https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/entry/further_updates_to_moving_to . If you must embed java in a web page, at least use the JNLP support in 6u10+. see http://bit.ly/NGy1NS [02:45]
velix I don't need tech support :-) [02:45]
cheeser you do. so very much. [02:45]
freeone3000 You could also just deploy with OpenJDK and not care what Oracle says. [02:45]
velix Okay, thanks a lot. I'll try it. [02:46]
velix But it's another reason, not to use Java anymore :-( [02:46]
velix Thanks for help. [02:46]
velix parted the channel: "Leaving" [02:46]
dreamreal ... because you don't have to use oraclde? [02:46]
cheeser next [02:47]
cheeser Another satisfied customer. Next! [02:47]
vbgunz_ freeone3000: what I mean is, I don't know how to parse the source and java api but as I'm learning, I keep seeing .toString() and .length and some other common methods on various objects. these methods seem so important for MANY objects and yet there is no list of the 20% of methods all objects have in common. [02:52]
vbgunz_ if you covered the 20% of common methods could you possibly cover the 80% of objects that have them in common? [02:52]
vbgunz_ it's just an idea, the channel seemed to go wild yesterday with the idea of collaborating on something [02:53]
freeone3000 Uh, yes there is. [02:54]
freeone3000 javadoc Object [02:54]
freeone3000 freeone3000: http://bit.ly/2XUvNZn [JDK: java.lang.Object] [02:54]
vbgunz_ I just personally think, my opinion, my contribution is focus on the 20% of java. e.g., take the top 100 java projects on github, gitlab, parse them to death and what's the 20% they have in common? surely, regardless of what libraries, etc they use, they all have at least 20% in common. if 20% throws anyone off, think 18%? [02:58]
vbgunz_ I supposed just don't think of covering everything, just cover the little that will most likely do everything [02:59]
dreamreal vbgunz_: uhhhh [02:59]
dreamreal for one thing, what you saw yesterday was mostly people "oh good I get to criticize someone else's work" [02:59]
vbgunz_ yeah, that's how you get an answer, haha [02:59]
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dreamreal for another, there's no "20% of java" - there's the syntax, the collections API, and then... uhh.... [02:59]
vbgunz_ hey guys I know how to do this! and then people give you the answer [03:00]
dreamreal I'd love to see that happen, actually, but I've already done my time for stuff like that, and it's not only thankless, it's a shitload of work [03:00]
vbgunz_ you're right [03:00]
cheeser indeed [03:00]
cheeser and i, personally, have code to write. [03:00]
vbgunz_ I agree [03:00]
ali1234 the top 100 java projects probably dont have anything in common besides being written in java [03:01]
vbgunz_ nah, I'm sure if someone parsed them up, there is a 20% [03:01]
dreamreal I've already committed to being willing to *help* but as far as being a core author... I dunno, I don't like people here enough any more, the social capital's been exhausted for that kind of request [03:01]
freeone3000 it'd be cool, but Java is not yet a historical curiosity and yet is mainly preserved by people still working on old code. [03:01]
cheeser statstics [03:01]
cheeser cheeser, what does that even *mean*? [03:01]
ali1234 maybe like 2% [03:01]
dreamreal vbgunz_: it's... syntax [03:01]
cheeser statistics [03:01]
cheeser 92% of alll statistics are made up on the spot. [03:01]
dreamreal statistics [03:02]
dreamreal 86% of alll statistics are made up on the spot. [03:02]
dreamreal literal statistics [03:02]
dreamreal <reply>(7|8|9)(1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9)% of alll statistics are made up on the spot. [03:02]
mike802 i think, all FOSS projects are trash [03:02]
mike802 AND irc needs to encrypt traffic [03:02]
mike802 parted the channel: [03:02]
dreamreal no, statistics is <reply>(7|8|9)(1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9)% of all statistics are made up on the spot. [03:02]
dreamreal OK, dreamreal. [03:02]
cheeser i think 100% of what he has to say should be hashed. [03:02]
dreamreal I still want to port the bot to rivescript at some point >:( [03:03]
vbgunz_ if I had the resources and could parse the top 100 java projects. what is the most popular class, the second most popular, etc. I don't know enough of the lingo but I bet the results would be interesting [03:03]
dreamreal vbgunz_: you're thinking of it the wrong way [03:04]
dreamreal "the most popular class" would be Object.. String... ArrayList. [03:04]
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freeone3000 IRC does encrypt traffic? [03:04]
ali1234 that core of information has been done to death over and over anyway [03:04]
dreamreal vbgunz_: what would you be actually looking for in such a resource? [03:04]
sbalmos freeone3000: Hoping that's a rhetorical question [03:06]
vbgunz_ not sure, I'm not asking for anything, just giving my 2 cents about the excitement from yesterday [03:06]
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dreamreal vbgunz_: well, what would it have to have to be interesting to you [03:06]
dreamreal I mean, we know java [03:06]
dreamreal we don't need such a resource [03:06]
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ali1234 i don't really know java so maybe i can answer that question [03:08]
dreamreal okay [03:08]
dreamreal waits with bated breath [03:08]
vbgunz_ yeah, and I'm learning it, everybody kind of took a dump on the book I'm learning with (no arguments about that). but as I go along with the book and keep ya in mind, I thought damn, either this book is repeating itself or it could have been 80% shorter [03:08]
ali1234 i know enough programming languages that i can hack on java and make it do what i want [03:08]
ali1234 i don't need another OOP tutorial [03:08]
dreamreal let's try again: what do you NEED [03:09]
ali1234 what i need is stuff like "this is how to use maven properly", "this is how you make a project from scratch in idea properly* [03:09]
dreamreal and keep in mind that vbgunz_ DOES need an OOP tutorial [03:09]
dreamreal ali1234: well, the way you make a project in IDEA is you use maven... [03:09]
ali1234 if you google either of those topics, the results you get are not very good [03:09]
dreamreal but yeah, I kinda wondered about a "let's walk through the tooling and concepts and syntax and some common classes" style of approach [03:10]
MarkyC The new project dialog in IDEA is pretty good, and Spring has the Initializr [03:10]
dreamreal we could ignore scanner and include testng [03:10]
dreamreal MarkyC: initializr has a ton of bugs [03:10]
ali1234 MarkyC: the new project dialog in idea makes a new project with a main class and that's it. if you want to compile your project to a jar, like literally everyone would? too bad, go mess around int he settings for two hours until you accidentally make it wowrk [03:10]
dreamreal so... installing java (and tools like a good IDE, so IDEA, and a build tool like gradle and/or maven) [03:11]
livepan eh, there is a feature in IDEA to do that i think but you probably want a proper build tool if its going to be real project [03:11]
dreamreal then syntax for java and some common classes... then libraries like spring/guice and testng [03:11]
MarkyC ali1234: You can make a new maven project using the new project dialog, which I'm fairly certain makes a jar by default [03:12]
livepan the best thing to do is start a project from a maven/gradle template generally [03:12]
vbgunz_ that's a good example [03:12]
dreamreal MarkyC: that's... still maven [03:12]
livepan then you dont have to figure out how to reverse engineer a build file after you built up a project [03:12]
ali1234 MarkyC: maybe, but it isn't clear to someone like me if it does or if it doesn't. it didn't when i used it yesterday, let's put it that way [03:12]
vbgunz_ the book thinks I'm writing single page java source but I learned from idea (at least the directory structure is wild) ... which leads me to ask, what's the one project style or structure that'll cover 80% of my future work. at this moment, 9 chapters in. I'm not sure and everyone has an opinion but nothing solid (yet, that I've found and could trust) [03:14]
vbgunz_ and that's just starting out [03:14]
dreamreal there's a standard directory structure [03:14]
dreamreal your book just doesn't cover the tooling well [03:14]
cheeser maven [03:15]
cheeser Maven is a software management tool that can compile, test, package, and deploy your project, with plugins for everything you can think of. See http://maven.apache.org and https://books.sonatype.com/mvnref-book/reference/index.html [03:15]
cheeser read the books link [03:15]
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jesmon vbgunz_: no book or tutorial is going to be helpful for very long. You may find a good source to get you up to speed on the basics, but you need to start writing code on your own ASAP (create your own web app or something) and just used those things for referenence when you find you're missing the knowledge required to accomplish something [03:15]
freeone3000 sbalmos: Someone complained it didn't. I'm connected through SSL, for sure. [03:16]
vbgunz_ jesmon: I agree totally. no better way to learn than to just put the learning down and start failing on your own. I'm just hoping to get a good foundation before I go crash and burn [03:17]
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dreamreal okay, so a *possible* TOC might be: Introduction, installing software, building projects, basic coding, testing, JDBC, dependency injection, web apps [03:18]
dreamreal What else, what would you change about the order there [03:18]
moonboy move the introduction last [03:18]
dreamreal yeah, shut up [03:19]
dreamreal you don't count [03:19]
dreamreal nobody loves you [03:19]
jesmon vbgunz_: you kind of need to crash and burn in order to figure out what you really don't know [03:19]
vbgunz_ exactly, I'm not doubting you one bit, you're right [03:19]
dreamreal "basic java" might include syntax and collections, along with other stuff but mostly focusing on those [03:21]
ali1234 "building projects" seems a bit hand-wavy [03:21]
dreamreal networking, I guess [03:21]
dreamreal ali1234: well, it has to be, to some degree. But the SHORT form of that section would "mvn package" and "gradle jar" [03:22]
dreamreal along with describing the standard directory structures [03:22]
ali1234 well, where is the "creating a project" section? [03:22]
dreamreal "building java projects" would have that [03:23]
dreamreal This is just an exercise before I get back to work, I know that the burden of writing 99% of this would be on me somehow if I undertook it [03:23]
dreamreal and the remaining 1% would be me fixing stuff where people complained [03:23]
ali1234 understood. and i'll probably never need to read it anyway [03:24]
dreamreal It sure would be neat to have, though [03:24]
dreamreal Just imagine people saying "but I want to... [03:24]
dreamreal and then "see section 4.5.1 in the java-soup-to-nuts book at..." [03:24]
ali1234 i mean instead of writing another book you could also just make the tools easier to use [03:25]
dreamreal and if someone actually did have knowledge from the channel to impart we could theoretically just... add it to the document [03:25]
dreamreal ali1234: well, good point. I think I'd rather raise the titanic; it'd be easier [03:25]
vbgunz_ haha [03:26]
dreamreal (In my latest book, my acknowledgements start with: "_____ would like to think the unthinkable, but the itheberg got to it already.") [03:26]
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dreamreal ali1234: fixing ALL OF THE TOOLING is, of course, a giant effort and would involve swimming against teh current in a big way, including telling the entire openjdk team that they're doing it wrong [03:28]
ali1234 haha [03:28]
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ali1234 welli certainly don't have the authority to do that [03:28]
dreamreal plus, the tooling IS THERE - it's not impossible to change what people do (otherwise maven, ant, gradle wouldn't exist, yeah?) but it's not trivial at all [03:32]
dreamreal well, seeing the enthusiasm generated by a potential TOC being done gratis confirms the process :) [03:35]
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dmlloyd it's just that everything is so much *work* :) [04:31]
dreamreal Yeah, well, when someone offers to do the worst of it and the result is still ".... yawn", well, that's useful research [04:38]
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