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« 2019-09-09

2019-09-10

2019-09-11 »

Nick Message Date
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pzanco hi [01:45]
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alexsuraphel can anyone help me make sense of this exception message? https://dpaste.de/UzhN [03:50]
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alexsuraphel SEVERE: Problems copying method. Incompatible JVM? [03:50]
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puppy_za so... have you tried the version they asked for? [03:55]
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efwe hello hello. we have kryo 4.0.2 and java11 - just now i realized, that the 'new' List.of, Map.of .. factories produce other collections and are not covered by other serializers. so even in the kryo-master branch i did not find a reference to java.util.ImmutableCollections - is there a special serializer for those somewhere? [03:55]
efwe for now i can register something like register(List.of().getClass(), new JavaSerializer() - but i'm not sure if this is optimal. [03:56]
puppy_za efwe: the problem is the implementation can change then your own serializer may not work. However, can't you just store a copy in a standard list like ArrayList (since, it's a list)? [04:00]
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efwe puppy_za: you mean in a serializer or in the 'developer code'? [04:03]
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puppy_za well I don't know the library "kryo" but I assume the serialiser is like the standard java serialiser (or json one). If I understand you correctly, you said the new immutable collection may not be serailised properly. My suggestion is that why don't you copy it to a list like an ArrayList? [04:04]
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julius_ pastebin [04:26]
julius_ Please paste your code and any errors online. For runnable main-classes, try https://ideone.com/ . For general code and errors, use for instance https://gist.github.com [04:26]
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bendem hibernate-- for being trying to be clever with timezones [04:42]
bendem hibernate has a karma level of -29, bendem [04:42]
bendem I have an Instant that's UTC based and a db field that's timestamp without timezone, don't go changing the time I store, it's an instant! [04:43]
yawkat if it's UTC-based, dont use Instant, use ZDT. [04:44]
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bendem It's not UTC-based, it's a point in time [04:44]
yawkat which is incompatible with timestamp w/o time zone, because that's an LDT (in postgres) [04:44]
bendem well that's dumb [04:45]
yawkat time in sql is a pita [04:46]
bendem I expect a type that's explicitly representing a point in time to not be converted to another timezone, is that too much to ask? [04:46]
yawkat https://jdbc.postgresql.org/documentation/head/java8-date-time.html [04:47]
yawkat yawkat's title: "Using Java 8 Date and Time classes" [04:47]
bendem I'm arguing that it is a bug and not a feature [04:47]
yawkat hibernate has to convert to LDT somehow, and UTC isnt any more sensible than any other TZ [04:48]
yawkat ideally it would error i guess [04:48]
bendem timestamp should be Instant and timestamp with timezone should be a ZDT [04:48]
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codecutter this is the correct way to compare 2 date objects, correct? https://pastebin.com/WyzCnFr5 [04:56]
Diablo-D3 re: time in sql [04:56]
yawkat codecutter: sure [04:56]
Diablo-D3 you need to understand your underlying sql impl... or strongly specify your column [04:56]
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Diablo-D3 mysql and pg, for example, both have different ways of datetime parsing [04:57]
yawkat did they really just join irc to *ask* whether compareTo is the proper way to compare dates? [04:57]
deebo yeah, justu se varchar(15) for "20190101 031432" [04:57]
deebo it even sorts with natural ordering! [04:58]
dreamreal codecutter isn't necessarily the strongest coder [04:58]
Diablo-D3 in pg, I'd use timestamptz [04:58]
yawkat deebo: you joke but putting ISO 8601 strings into your db is a perfectly valid way to store datetime types [04:58]
yawkat especially for rdbms that are even worse than postgres about this (e.g. mysql) [04:59]
Diablo-D3 yeah, Im not going to disagree... if you dont have to actually parse your datetimes in the sql, then why not [04:59]
puppy_za but how do you select for a date range? [05:09]
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yawkat same as always? [05:10]
yawkat string comparison works well on iso 8601 times. [05:10]
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amoe I quite like @Slf4j annotation in Lombok to generate a Logger field. Now working on some code that can't use Lombok. Wondering if there are any other non-IDE approaches to removing this boilerplate. (yes, it's only one line...) [05:51]
yawkat not really [05:52]
yawkat there are some reflection-based approaches that allow you to omit the class name but they all suck [05:52]
amoe Ok np, thanks. [05:54]
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mitch0 uh... [05:59]
OnceMe java.io.IOException: java.lang.RuntimeException: mysql start failed with error: [ERROR] Can't start server: Bind on TCP/IP port: Address already in use. [06:00]
mitch0 switch to postgres, it uses a different port [06:01]
yawkat mitch0++ [06:01]
yawkat mitch0 has a karma level of 34, yawkat [06:01]
OnceMe I just upgraded org.liquibase:liquibase-groovy-dsl from 1.2 to 2.0 and I get this [06:01]
OnceMe it's using embeddeddatabase [06:01]
OnceMe Im trying to find a compatible way to solve this, without switching to postgres if possible [06:01]
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julius_ pastebin [06:32]
julius_ Please paste your code and any errors online. For runnable main-classes, try https://ideone.com/ . For general code and errors, use for instance https://gist.github.com [06:32]
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bendem is google's autoservice still the thing to use for SPI implementation auto generation? [06:33]
dreamreal I didn't know it was "the thing" in the first place [06:34]
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bendem I don't know, I remember using it years ago [06:34]
bendem what would you use? [06:34]
bendem spi [06:34]
bendem bendem, spi is Service Provider Interface. Lets you drop a small text file into a jar saying "I have a class that implements this interface", then use java.util.ServiceLoader at runtime to find all implementations of that interface. See https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/ext/basics/spi.html for an intro and https://github.com/aalmiray/jipsy to make creating the service files much simpler. [06:34]
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dreamreal Depends on what I was trying to do, of course [06:34]
bendem generate a spi descriptor for my implementation [06:35]
dreamreal hmm, good question, I'd probably just manually create it :/ [06:36]
sonOfRa I mean, isn't the spi descriptor literally one line? [06:36]
sonOfRa IDEA is even smart about it [06:37]
dreamreal yeah [06:37]
bendem I mean, I like the fact that the build will fail if it is mispelled [06:37]
sonOfRa If you edit a file called <foocorp.spi.Interface> it'll offer you all your implementations of foocorp.spi.Interface in your project for completion [06:37]
surial amoe: Flogger is a logging framework that does it already. However, the 'trick' flogger uses can be done for any logging framework. You can make it as simple as: import static com.amoe.LogMaker.*; at the top and then log.warn(), etc. However, that does the lookup every time and is probably too expensive (you'd have to test the performance impact). Slightly more complex is 'import com.amoe.LogMaker;' and then 'private static [06:38]
surial final Logger mylogger = LogMaker.make();' [06:38]
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bendem is there up to date doc somewhere about what's the correct way to create a custom type for hibernate that gets to fetch and set from the ResultSet/PreparedStatement? It looks like UserType is deprecated, but the documentation of JavaTypeDescriptor and SqlTypeDescriptor is very sparse [06:48]
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surial bendem: still on this enum thing, huh. [06:59]
surial <religious proseletysing>Have you heard the good word about ditching JPA and going with an actual SQL abstraction, such as JDBI</proselytse> [07:00]
surial that is a hard word to spell. [07:00]
odinsbane closing a tag with a different tag name... [07:01]
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dreamreal surial: learn SGML, geez, you moron [07:06]
dreamreal (note tongue firmly planted in cheek) [07:07]
dreamreal why not just say <evangelization> [07:08]
odinsbane </preselytize> [07:13]
dreamreal except that's misspellled too [07:13]
odinsbane ... I would like to pretend it was for irony. [07:13]
odinsbane </pergoselytize> [07:14]
dreamreal accepts that :) [07:14]
abclove subclass can inherit private variable ? [07:19]
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dreamreal fsvo "inherit" [07:21]
dreamreal the subclass has the private attribute but it's not accessible [07:21]
dreamreal what happened when you tried it? [07:21]
abclove ah thanks [07:21]
abclove then it inherit private variable anyway [07:22]
abclove 8) [07:22]
dreamreal fsvo "inherit" [07:22]
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bendem surial, I am consultant, I can evangelise ditching JPA all I want, it's still what 99% of the big companies use, and they are very attached to it [07:39]
bendem I personally use JOOQ / sql-streams on my own projects [07:39]
bendem surial, I know how much JPA sucks first hand, trust me, if I could, I would stop using it :) [07:40]
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surial bendem: bless you my son. [07:56]
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sonOfRa In C++, there's all kinds of distribution types defined in the <random> header: https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/numeric/random. In java.util.Random all I can see is a gaussian distribution. Is there any good java library that supplying such varied things? [08:04]
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galgamach For JDK installation, is everyone using the openJDK on debian based Linux OS ? I think I mixed my JRE and JDK with the first being from the repositories and the latter downloaded from Oracle [08:06]
dreamreal galgamach: pretty much everyone's moved away from oracle's JDK, yes [08:07]
dreamreal an easy way to manage java is with SDKman, which is slightly more reliable than the built-in distributions [08:07]
galgamach dreamreal: built-in distributions are the ones in the repositories right ? [08:09]
dreamreal galgamach: yes [08:09]
dreamreal you can use apt or dnf to get java, but it tends to be kinda iffy depending on what distribution/repository combination you have (ubuntu 18.04, for example, labeled java 10 as java 11 and AFAIK continues to do so) [08:10]
galgamach ah we're still sticking with java 8 :D [08:10]
dreamreal why? [08:10]
galgamach legacy code from my former colleague... and the sys admin is sticking with that version too [08:11]
dreamreal that's... intelligent [08:11]
galgamach D :D :D well... it is what is it LOL [08:11]
galgamach which version are you using ? [08:12]
x256 Then your sysop is not doing his/her job [08:12]
dreamreal galgamach: a version that's actually supported [08:12]
galgamach dreamreal: that's... from 9 and onwards ? [08:12]
dreamreal that's versions 11 and 12 for now, 11 is LTS and 12 is current [08:13]
dreamreal 8 was EOLed a long time ago [08:13]
galgamach and 9 ? [08:13]
dreamreal EOLed also [08:13]
galgamach ah ok [08:13]
sonOfRa galgamach: the new release schedule is a new version every 6 months, and a new LTS version every 6 releases (three years) [08:13]
dreamreal and 10? EOLed also. The LTS releases are, of course, LTS - that's 11, will be 14, will be 17 [08:13]
x256 11 is the current "stable" or "lts" release, if there is such a thing. [08:14]
sonOfRa dreamreal: wait, every *3* versions is LTS? [08:14]
dreamreal sonOfRa: I could be mistaken, 6 versions sounds ... smarter. But is Oracle smarter? [08:14]
yawkat 8 is still in support depending on vendor [08:15]
sonOfRa I'm not certain either, but I think 11 is the exception because they wanted to properly eol 8 with a new LTS, and from then on it's going to be every 6 versions [08:15]
sonOfRa I'll have a look [08:15]
dreamreal hold on, I'm looking too [08:15]
yawkat yes every 6 [08:15]
x256 dreamreal: There is no official LTS, but some vendors promised to support some versions longer than usual, and they aligned with oracle I think. Which makes sense. [08:15]
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yawkat next will be 17 [08:15]
dreamreal google is doing a poor job finding canonical references to that cadence, but thank you [08:17]
dreamreal x256: uhhhh [08:17]
dreamreal lts [08:17]
dreamreal dreamreal, what does that even *mean*? [08:17]
dreamreal lts is <reply>LTS stands for "long term support," and is used to denote releases for which vendors have committed resources for, well, long term support. In Java, the current LTS version is java 11, with the next LTS slated to be Java 17. [08:17]
dreamreal OK, dreamreal. [08:17]
yawkat depending on vendor 8 is also lts [08:18]
dreamreal lts is <reply>LTS stands for "long term support," and is used to denote releases for which vendors have committed resources for, well, long term support. In Java, the current LTS version is java 11 (with some vendors supporting 8 under various circumstances), with the next LTS slated to be Java 17. [08:18]
dreamreal I already have a factoid named 'lts', dreamreal [08:18]
dreamreal no, lts is <reply>LTS stands for "long term support," and is used to denote releases for which vendors have committed resources for, well, long term support. In Java, the current LTS version is java 11 (with some vendors supporting 8 under various circumstances), with the next LTS slated to be Java 17. [08:18]
dreamreal OK, dreamreal. [08:18]
dreamreal better? [08:18]
yawkat eg https://www.azul.com/products/azul_support_roadmap/ [08:19]
dreamreal yeah [08:19]
dreamreal I just don't care about 8 so didn't factor that in :/ [08:19]
x256 Sure, but that depends on the vendor. There is no 'official' LTS release, because there is no 'official' distribution. The OpenJDK project itself does not offer LTS for certain versions, as far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong). Just some vendors promising to maintain certain versions. This is different from, say, node, where the upstream project itself offers LTS. Nitpicking, yes. Sorry. [08:23]
dreamreal shrugs. in this channel, nitpicking is pretty... average. Fix the factoid if you'd like. [08:24]
surial x256, dreamreal: What x256 said; LTS is a technically a property of a 'packaging' of the openjdk source repo and not the openjdk source repo itself. Except practically speaking, the source repo (as in, the commits etc) definitely do keep in mind what is LTS and what is not, and every packaging that has some notion of LTS in any form all uses the same versions as LTS versions. So.. while that is oversimplified, I think it covers [08:24]
surial the needs more than sufficiently. [08:24]
x256 What I wanted to say, is, that "11 is an LTS release" depends entirely on the vendor. We are just lucky that most agree, but it's not an universal fact that every 3rd release will be LTS. [08:24]
surial Of all info that isn't in that factoid, the one that I think would come up most often is that oracle openjdk _DOES NOT DO_ the LTS thing, at all. [08:24]
dreamreal feel free to fix the factoid. [08:25]
surial x256: Yes; see above. [08:25]
surial dreamreal: well, I'm not sure if that missing info is important enough to try to fit in there. It's pushing the line limits as is. [08:25]
dreamreal if, however, you're emphasizing pedantic intent over semantic intent, I'd hold off. But do what you think is best. I did. [08:25]
surial LTS is short for "long term support": It denotes releases for which vendors of JDK distros pledged long-term support. LTS Versions are 8 (more or less), 11, and 17. Non-LTS versions generally aren't maintained from the day the next java version is out. Note that ALL Oracle OpenJDK releases work like that (support for 6 months, that is it). LTS applies to AdoptOpenJDK, Azul, commercial OracleVM, etc. [08:27]
surial that could be an alternative. I'm not sure if it is better. [08:27]
dreamreal points to the bot's factoid programming [08:27]
cheeser iirc, the irc line limit is 250 chars [08:27]
x256 s/that is it/pay for more/ ? [08:27]
surial I know I can update it, ya goof. I'm trying to walk a mile in the shoes of a newbie and trying to figure out what's the right balance between info you need and overcomplicating things. [08:27]
surial x256: no, you can't pay for me. [08:28]
surial x256: Oracle OpenJDK is as is. You cannot get support for it even if you wanted to. There's OracleJDK which is basically a bit-by-bit copy with a different license. That's HOW you pay for support for 'oracle openjdk': Buy oraclejdk. [08:28]
x256 So OracleJDK is now completely unsuitable for enterprise, even if you pay for a license? [08:28]
surial no, sigh. wow. [08:28]
cheeser no [08:28]
surial openjdk refers to many things; one of the things it refers to is the source repository. [08:28]
surial MANY vendors make 'packagings' of it: They alls tart with the same repo, but someone needs to compile it for all platforms, make installers, perhaps live-updaters, etc, and most of all, 'maintain it', be it in the form of an auto updater, a mailing list, a stern talking to of 'fuck it you are on your own'.. something. [08:29]
x256 In my vrain, "Oracle OpenJDK" is somewhat hard-wired to "OracleJDK". Wrong, yes. Sorry [08:30]
surial Oracle, the vendor, so happens to make _TWO_ packagings: OracleVM, which is ALWAYS for pay (you can, as a developer, download for free, but then it is licensend very very limitedly, and only the current version, with zero support whatsoever), and Oracle OpenJDK which is ALWAYS free, but somewhat unique amongst all packagings, doesn't do the LTS thing _AT ALL_. Oracle OpenJDK11 ceased being supported and is in fact no longer [08:30]
surial downloadable from oracle.com the day oracle OpenJDK12 was available for download. [08:30]
surial In practice, that makes both of oracle's offerings a bit.. inconvenient if you're a developer. Hence why I suggest AdoptOpenJDK or coretto instead; these are free foss(ish) things that _DO_ do the LTS thing, more or less. [08:31]
cheeser you should always just use adoptopenjdk. [08:33]
cheeser always. always. always. except when you need to use corretto (on aws). [08:33]
x256 or, whatever your linux distribution ships, if that is recent enough for you. [08:34]
Bombe Fuck all that, I?m going back to SUN?s JDK. [08:36]
cheeser if only... [08:37]
Diablo-D3 adoptopenjdk <3 [08:37]
cheeser https://adoptopenjdk.net/installation.html?variant=openjdk12&jvmVariant=hotspot#linux-pkg [08:37]
cheeser cheeser's title: "Installation | AdoptOpenJDK - Open source, prebuilt OpenJDK binaries" [08:37]
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abclove can i know why i can?t use super() and this() both at constructor? [08:44]
cheeser you can know, yes.. [08:45]
abclove ? [08:45]
abclove i don?t know it cheeser [08:45]
cheeser you can only call one constructor. more or less. [08:45]
cheeser you should call this() and let the constructor call super9) [08:46]
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sonOfRa abclove: because the call to super() is implicit in every constructor [08:47]
cheeser it's not actually [08:47]
cheeser if he calls this() there will be no super() [08:47]
sonOfRa If you don't add an explicit call to super() (or super(args,...)) to the very top of your constructor, you get a call to super() injected [08:47]
sonOfRa Yes, I was gonna get there. [08:47]
cheeser enter [08:48]
cheeser Enter is not punctuation. Please don't press your Enter or Return key until you're finished typing your question, sentence, or idea. It is annoying to see that and hard to follow. [08:48]
surial no, LTS is short for "long term support": It denotes releases for which vendors of JDK distros pledged long-term support. LTS Versions are 8 (more or less), 11, and 17. Non-LTS versions generally aren't maintained from the day the next java version is out. Note that ALL Oracle OpenJDK releases work like that (support for 6 months, that is it). LTS applies to AdoptOpenJDK, Azul, commercial OracleVM, etc. We suggest using [08:48]
surial OK, surial. [08:48]
surial AdoptOpenJDK. [08:48]
surial f*ck. [08:48]
cheeser slow claps [08:48]
surial IRC limit is 512, that is 438, but textual decided not to play. [08:49]
abclove cheeser: strange, public Mini() { this(3) } <?? there is a super() in front of this(3)? cheeser ? [08:49]
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cheeser abclove: 08:47 <@cheeser> if he calls this() there will be no super() [08:49]
surial no, LTS is short for "long term support": It denotes releases for which vendors of JDK distros pledged long-term support. LTS Versions are 8 (more or less), 11, and 17. Non-LTS versions generally aren't maintained from the day the next java version is out. Note that ALL Oracle OpenJDK releases work like that (support for 6 months, that is it). LTS applies to AdoptOpenJDK, coretto, Azul and commercial OracleVM. [08:49]
surial OK, surial. [08:49]
surial abclove: no. Any constructor starts with this OR super. [08:49]
sonOfRa abclove: no. That is the exception: If you call this(3), instead of calling super(), it calls the other constructor. However *that* constructor will have a call to super() (or again this(somethnigElse)) [08:50]
cheeser no oxford comma, surial? are you a beast? [08:50]
surial gaaaah. [08:50]
surial You get the big sword, I get the dagger. [08:50]
abclove thanks cheeser and surial and sonOfRa :) [08:50]
surial no, LTS is short for "long term support": Releases for which vendors of JDK distros pledged long-term support (years vs. 6 months). LTS Versions: 8, 11, and 17. Note that ALL Oracle OpenJDK releases are only supported for 6 months, even LTS versions; LTS only applies to AdoptOpenJDK, coretto, Azul, and commercial OracleVM. Use ~adoptopenjdk. [08:51]
surial OK, surial. [08:51]
surial And now I'm done. I refer to dreamreal's missive: Fix it yourself or revert it to dreamreal's, which might well be better. This is more information dense (but that's not always a good thing). [08:52]
sonOfRa You can sorta try this out: If you have a class that doesn't have a no-argument constructor, and *inherit* from it, at least one of the constructors in that class will have to include an explicit call to super. Reason is that javac can't guess which super-constructor to call if there isn't one that doesn't take arguments [08:52]
dreamreal surial: I think yours is acceptable. [08:52]
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dostoyevsky is Spring still a modern framework these days or are there better frameworks for Java? [08:54]
cheeser yes and yes [08:54]
dreamreal fsvo "better" [08:54]
sonOfRa yes, and depends on who you ask! [08:54]
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x256 And on what you want to do [08:54]
dreamreal spring's certainly not alone in the DI space, though, and that's a good thing [08:54]
sonOfRa dostoyevsky: it'll come down to what your fellow developers are accustomed with. Another framework can have all kinds of awesome features, but if all your devs are already very familiar with spring, it might be better to stick with spring [08:56]
x256 I wrote my own, and I'm not proud of it (but had to). Poor guy/gal that has to maintain it some day :D [08:58]
sonOfRa Just like the people who have to maintain those estimated 220 billion lines of COBOL [08:58]
dreamreal although cobol would be pretty easy to maintain even if you're unfamiliar with it [08:59]
dreamreal "uhhh what does COMPUTE TOTAL BY SUBTOTAL + TAX mean?" [08:59]
dreamreal ("It means you're an idiot, Bob.") [09:00]
sonOfRa The question is then how much cobol code looks like that and how much cobol code looks like [09:00]
dostoyevsky Does Spring require EJBs these days? [09:00]
sonOfRa COMPUTE X BY Z + A * 4 + D [09:00]
dreamreal sonOfRa: even that's pretty easy to figure out... [09:00]
dreamreal dostoyevsky: no, it never has [09:00]
dostoyevsky Is there still a reason to use EJBs for new projects in 2019? [09:01]
sonOfRa Sure. JavaEE is alive and well [09:01]
dreamreal sonOfRa: and most cobol programmers don't worry about using short names like that, because the way variables are defined is too inconvenient to really encourage short forms like that [09:02]
cheeser it's Jakarta EE actuallyy [09:02]
sonOfRa Current example because I'm working with it: Keycloak (identity provider/oauth2/openidc) [09:02]
cheeser Java EE is dead. [09:02]
sonOfRa potato potahto! [09:02]
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dreamreal cheeser: what's the cutover going to be like? [09:09]
cheeser there's supposed to be a Jakarta EE 8 release in the next few days actuallly [09:10]
x256 Looks like it is already there: https://jakarta.ee/release/ [09:11]
x256 x256's title: "Jakarta EE Software | Cloud Native | The Eclipse Foundation" [09:11]
bendem yawkat, you might be interested to know that hibernate actually does the right thing regarding Instant/LocalDateTime. It converts LocalDateTime to and from the application's timezone so postgresql stores it as UTC based on the correct timezone. What throws me off is that there was an old LocalDateTime.now(UTC) (coming from before the switch to Instant) which was inserted as a LocalDateTime (thus wrong since it [09:13]
bendem was already UTC but the offset was applied again on insert) but fetched through @Formula as an Instant (so without timezone conversion) [09:13]
cheeser which isn't the same as being released... [09:13]
bendem all that to say, I was wrong, hibernate treats LDT as zoned to the system's timezone, and Instant as UTC [09:13]
bendem hibernate++ [09:13]
bendem hibernate has a karma level of -28, bendem [09:13]
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x256 cheeser: Uhm... https://jakartablogs.ee/ looks pretty released to me if Mike Milinkovich publishes an official "It's released" blog post and the website says it is. [09:17]
yawkat bendem: well, hibernate treats LDT exactly like the postgres docs from above [09:18]
cheeser well, that's different then and great news for the project. i hadn't seen anything other than a reference a few days ago to a pending release. i know they were timing it for Oracle Code One [09:19]
cheeser published *today* so yeah [09:19]
bendem yawkat, right, what threw me off is that the thing was inserted as a LDT and read as an Instant, took me a while to spot that [09:19]
bendem made me think that hibernate was somehome reading Instant as LDT from the ResultSet instead of as Timestamp [09:20]
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wedr When writing Junit tests for Hibernate, is there a way to check and see if a transaction has been rolled back in a Hibernate Session? [09:51]
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masterheretic I've got this data structure: "ConcurrentHashMap<String, ConcurrentLinkedDeque<MyObject>>". I obviously need locking when I add a new key to the HashMap because otherwise a race condition could replace first Deque with a second one. Is there a way to solve this without locking? [09:53]
masterheretic By using a different DS or something? [09:53]
yawkat computeIfAbsent [09:54]
masterheretic Thanks [09:54]
cheeser masterheretic: spend some time in the javadoc and you can find these answers on your own... [09:55]
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kupi hi [09:56]
masterheretic cheeser: Yes, sorry [09:57]
kupi "It is strongly recommended, but <i>not</i> strictly required that {@code (x.compareTo(y)==0) == (x.equals(y))}." [09:57]
kupi "a negative integer, zero, or a positive integer as this object is less than, equal to, or greater than the specified object." [09:57]
kupi I find that these to sentences are contradicting [09:57]
kupi correct me if I am wrong [09:57]
kupi *these two [09:58]
yawkat kupi: look at BigDecimal [09:58]
wedr kupi, It's just saying you aren't 100% obligated to write that code [09:58]
kupi I know how bigdecimal works [09:58]
yawkat equals is structural equality, compareTo is numerical equality [09:58]
kupi but still, I find those two sentences contradicting [09:58]
kupi in the same class (comparator) [09:58]
wedr You aren't obligated to write that sort of comparison in your code. [09:58]
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wedr They just had to write it out because some person actually committed that into production code [09:59]
wedr Gotta keep your bases in check [09:59]
odinsbane It helps your treemaps. [10:00]
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kupi how can these two sentences be true: ? [10:13]
Bombe How are they not? [10:13]
kupi @return ... zero ... equal to ... the specified object [10:14]
yawkat equal to != the method equals [10:14]
yawkat next [10:14]
yawkat Another satisfied customer. Next! [10:14]
kupi "<i>not</i> strictly required that {@code (x.compareTo(y)==0) == (x.equals(y))}." [10:14]
Bombe Yes. [10:14]
Bombe So? [10:14]
Bombe Pasting it again doesn?t change what is being said. [10:15]
kupi but equals means "Indicates whether some other object is "equal to" this one." [10:15]
yawkat <yawkat> equals is structural equality, compareTo is numerical equality [10:15]
Bombe Yes. So? [10:15]
yawkat im not sure what the issue is here? [10:15]
Bombe Me neither. [10:15]
kupi ok, I will example it in a different way [10:16]
kupi he doc of equal to says: "Indicates whether some other object is "equal to" this one." [10:16]
yawkat kupi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalence_relation [10:17]
yawkat they describe different equivalence relations [10:17]
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Bombe kupi, two strings might not be the same but they might be considered equivalent for sorting. [10:17]
cheeser compareTo is "allowed" flexibility because context shifts as do needs. e.g., the epsilon example i gave earlier. [10:17]
kupi "It is strongly recommended, but <i>not</i> strictly required that {"x equal to y" == "whether y is "equal to" x."}." [10:18]
wedr hmmm, does javabot support prev? [10:19]
wedr prev [10:19]
wedr wedr, prev is Another satisfied customer next? [10:19]
cheeser please stop repeating the same shit, kupi [10:19]
kupi Every sentence is from the documentation subtitutioned [10:19]
Bombe Yes. So? [10:19]
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spuz I have a weird error after re-organising some code into a new module. The code compiles fine, but when I try to run my application I get the error java.lang.LayerInstantiationException: Package com.example.PackageA in both module com.example.NewModule and module com.example.OldModule. PackageA definitely does not exist in NewModule. Why would Java [10:20]
spuz be giving me this error? [10:20]
Bombe kupi, you have been explained multiple times now that equals() and compareTo() do different things, with examples. [10:20]
wedr spuz, probably some dependency error somewhere [10:21]
kupi Bombe: I know that but the documentation still contains contradicting sentences [10:21]
spuz wedr: yeah... but the code compiles, and the error given does not make sense to me [10:21]
cheeser it does not [10:21]
cheeser ffs [10:21]
kupi I will make a pastebin for you [10:21]
cheeser don't bother [10:22]
Bombe kupi, I know the docs. And they are not contradicting. [10:22]
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wedr spuz, That's still a dependency error, but in runtime [10:24]
wedr I don't think dependency errors are strictly compile time errors [10:24]
spuz hmm [10:25]
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dreamreal they're not [10:27]
dreamreal feature of late binding [10:27]
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spuz ok found the problem. there were some sneaky .class files in an "out" directory that IntelliJ created before I had a chance to make the new module a gradle module which conflicted with classes of the same package in another module [10:33]
spuz gradle "clean" wasn't clearing out those old .class files which was why it was tripping me up [10:33]
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dreamreal you... uh... had an intellij project that wasn't a gradle project for more than 0 ms? [10:33]
spuz Not a project, a module [10:34]
dreamreal you... uh... had an intellij module that wasn't a gradle project for more than 0 ms? [10:34]
kupi I am sorry if it looks like that I am trolling but I still see a contradiction, I made a pastebin how I drew that conclusion [10:35]
kupi https://pastebin.com/raw/eT1PFA2c [10:35]
spuz I haven't yet figured out how to reliably create a new gradle module in IntelliJ [10:35]
dreamreal spuz: create a gradle module. Import into intellij. [10:35]
spuz how do I create that gradle module? [10:36]
kupi Bombe: which point I got wrong from the three? [10:36]
Bombe kupi, ?x is equal to y? is not equal to ?x is equal to y.? [10:36]
dreamreal kupi: compareTo and equals() are not checking the same things [10:36]
dreamreal spuz: "gradle init" [10:36]
Bombe kupi, now it?s your turn. :) [10:36]
spuz ok thanks [10:36]
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kupi dreamreal: I know that [10:36]
dreamreal spuz: that creates a build.gradle along with other things. [10:36]
dreamreal kupi: so your equivalence is wrong. [10:36]
spuz cool [10:36]
cheeser it's almost as if the two things aren't equal! [10:37]
Bombe kupi, you?re saying just because there are two equal substrings in the docs, they must mean the same. [10:37]
Bombe kupi, hint: they don?t. [10:37]
kupi so everything is dependent on the implementation, nothing is ensured [10:38]
Bombe kupi, everything is pretty much as it?s stated in the docs. [10:38]
dreamreal kupi: say I have a Product, and I want it organized based on SKU number, basically an artificial identity. I can have two products with different SKUs that are "the same" (therefore: productA.equals(productB)==true) but the compareTo() would STILL use the SKU and the result would NOT be 0. [10:39]
dreamreal this is entirely consistent with the docs, although if I designed that data I'd probably deserve a clop to the eye. [10:39]
Bombe I?m not sure one more example will do the trick. [10:39]
Bombe Anyway, I?m going home. Laters! [10:39]
dreamreal Bombe: but it's MY example and my examples are the best [10:39]
Bombe Totally true. [10:40]
kupi but now I get it, the phrase "equal to" means different on the two class [10:40]
Bombe dreamreal++ [10:40]
Bombe dreamreal has a karma level of 7, Bombe [10:40]
dreamreal bows [10:40]
enoq hibernate docs hint at using geolatte [10:46]
enoq but there is 0 docs [10:46]
enoq and even instantiating a point is a PITA [10:46]
ron cool story [10:47]
dreamreal enoq: have you asked #hibernate-dev? [10:47]
enoq will do thanks [10:47]
dreamreal may be better for #hibernate - not entirely sure. [10:48]
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kupi anyone can give me a problem in which the OOP solution is in some aspects is better than the imperative or the functional one? I want to learn the advantages of OOP [10:55]
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dreamreal kupi: it's a matter of abstraction [10:58]
dreamreal OOP tends to naturally bind related data together in an object, and it is NOT contradicted by imperative or functional. imperative and functional tend to be in opposition, OOP is orthogonal. [10:59]
cheeser also, consider asking #programming such questions. [10:59]
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echelon hi [11:10]
masterheretic hello [11:13]
dreamreal hi [11:14]
echelon this code was compiled for java8 i think.. https://paste.ee/r/W0RLI [11:15]
echelon s/for/with/ [11:15]
echelon but it doesn't work with java 11 runtime, is there like a compatibility mode? [11:15]
kupi dreamreal: I can bind related data in a data structure [11:15]
cheeser tech support [11:16]
cheeser echelon, Hello, ##java is not a technical support channel for your Java apps or virtual machines; it's a development channel for enthusiasts to discuss programming with the Java language. Please ask the vendor of your software for support if you're having trouble with it. [11:16]
bendem echelon, it's a breaking API change, not a bytecode change [11:16]
bendem well, "breaking" [11:16]
bendem people have been assuming the classloader would always be an instance of URLClassLoader, tough luck, it changed in Java 9 [11:17]
echelon cheeser: i didn't ask you to fix, i asked if there was a compatibility mode [11:17]
bendem no [11:17]
echelon bendem: alright, thanks [11:17]
dreamreal kupi: of course you can. [11:17]
bendem to fix this you need to actually fix the code [11:17]
echelon i don't have the code :/ [11:17]
bendem then your problem is not relevant to this channel [11:18]
echelon oops, it says.. "this application requires a java runtime environment 1.4.0" [11:19]
echelon alright [11:19]
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kupi dreamreal is there any strength of OOP which I can use in java, but can't in functional languages such as haskell, f# or closure? [11:37]
ron java is dead. [11:38]
kupi ron: strawman, I did not say that [11:38]
dreamreal kupi: ... [11:38]
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ron kupi: I know you didn't, I did. [11:39]
ron I mean, huh? [11:39]
dreamreal functional languages would struggle with imperative programming, which java has no issue with. As far as haskell, clojure, or f#, I don't know those languages. [11:39]
ron dreamreal: all extremely popular languages, you should be ashamed [11:39]
dreamreal I'm not, though. Oh, well. [11:40]
kupi ron Sturgeon's law I guess [11:40]
freeone3000 F# is kind of cheating, because it's functional in design, but has the ability to just go full imperative. [11:41]
ron kupi: I'm an anarchist [11:41]
freeone3000 Sure, you can do double-dispatch based on type traits with compositional recursion, then you can just... have a while loop. [11:41]
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kupi ron: which one from the family? there are many kind of anarchism. Something will fill the vacuum of state such as a commune or a market [11:42]
cheeser interesting [11:43]
cheeser this is all very interesting (not really) but please take it somewhere else. [11:43]
ron kupi: bet you're fun at parties. [11:43]
kupi cheeser: even if there is no java related discussion at that time_ [11:44]
kupi ? [11:44]
cheeser yes [11:44]
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renlo intellij question: how tf do I get intellij to tell me what it thinks some value's type is [11:45]
kupi cheeser sad, do you know good offtopic irc channels? [11:45]
ron cheeser: don't [11:45]
cheeser renlo: #idea-users [11:45]
renlo thanks [11:45]
waz kupi #java-talk if you want [11:49]
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renlo Java's alright, Java devs though, jury's still out on that one [11:52]
renlo I'll leave, just frustrated with this codebase [11:53]
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whaley it's to be expected. Java devs are a subset of all humans. And humans are fucking terrible. [12:54]
cheeser "does it always have to come down to something sucking?" " ... i think it does!" [12:56]
dreamreal hands cheeser an octopus [12:57]
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\emph{grumble} hi, i'm having a hard time understanding file:// urls with java.net.URL: In my understanding, the syntax is file://<path>. So on unix-like systems an absolute path like /etc/services becomes file:///etc/services. And that looks fine and it works. [01:36]
dreamreal okay [01:37]
\emph{grumble} But relative paths are a problem. For example when I try "file://./services", trying to open and connect a urlconnection yields a "java.net.UnknownHostException: ." [01:37]
dreamreal I'm not even sure urls support relative paths [01:38]
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\emph{grumble} i thought so too, then i saw that "file:./services" works just fine, and now i'm thoroughly confused [01:38]
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donalsd What is a good library for password hashing using bcrypt or argon2? [02:14]
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yawkat argon2 [02:17]
yawkat yawkat, argon2 is a password hashing function that won the 2014 password hashing competition (https://password-hashing.net/). You can find a java implementation here: https://github.com/phxql/argon2-jvm. Also ask me about ~bcrypt which is an older but more studied password hashing function [02:17]
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donalsd bcrypt [02:29]
donalsd donalsd, jbcrypt is a java implementation of a simple (but the best) password hashing algorithm. It's open source and has just 3 methods. The site contains an example of how to store a password, and how to check one: http://www.mindrot.org/projects/jBCrypt/ [02:29]
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surial \emph{grumble}: file://FOO/PATH will treat FOO as a server. And yet file:///PATH will treat the slash as part of the path. So, the slash is both 'separator between server part and path part' as well as 'leading part of the path part'. [03:49]
surial \emph{grumble}: this sounds fucked up. The real answer is: file: URLs _DO NOT SUPPORT_ relative paths. If with some voodoo shit you can make it interpreted as relative, congrats.. you broke something. file a bug report. [03:49]
sbalmos Please don't tell me that's pseudo-SGML... [03:50]
surial \emph{grumble}: but, yes, file:startRElativePathImmediatelyHere is generally how to do it. Note that many systems don't support it, will mangle that, etc. Maybe you just have to hack around things, but if you explain where you ran into file: URLs maybe we can point out alternative strategies to solve the problem. [03:50]
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\emph{grumble} i found out that an existing codebase that only supports urls for specifying the location of something on the command line, and a script that does some weird stuff distinguishing between absolute and relative paths before passing it to java [03:52]
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\emph{grumble} so it's just a weird thing i found that i didn't understand :) [03:52]
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sbalmos surial: sorry, I actually thought you were inventing a new pseudo-emotion tag, like replacing </sarc> or such. :D [04:03]
surial sbalmos: heh :P [04:04]
upgrdman is it possible to "import static" a a static field from a class that is not in a named package? [04:09]
dreamreal upgrdman: um, why are you doing anything with an unnamed package? [04:10]
upgrdman dreamreal, to piss people off ;) [04:10]
dreamreal well, congrats, you screwed yourself over. EOT. [04:10]
dreamreal upgrdman: the moral of that story is: never use the unnamed package. There is no further "how do I" because that's THE MORAL OF THE STORY. [04:12]
upgrdman ) [04:12]
upgrdman so it's not possible? [04:12]
dreamreal I dunno, but who cares. Once you've started using the unnamed package you've mangled everything and nothing can help you but using namespaces properly. [04:13]
dreamreal I could try it and see, but it's the unnamed package - what worth would the information have? ever? [04:13]
dreamreal and if I can try it, so can you [04:13]
dreamreal It'd be like answering "can I bite off my own neck?" positively through experience [04:14]
upgrdman well "import static Foo.bar;" does not work [04:15]
upgrdman is there some keyword for unnamed pkg? [04:15]
dreamreal nope, it's unnamed [04:15]
dreamreal did you forget the moral of the story already? [04:15]
upgrdman just hoping for a workaround [04:16]
upgrdman ) [04:16]
surial upgrdman: you can't import anything from the unnamed package. [04:16]
dreamreal for... uh... [04:16]
surial upgrdman: that's sort of its definition. [04:16]
dreamreal upgrdman: the moral of the story is "don't use the unnamed package." There is nothing after that. It's like a story that ends with the heat death of the universe... "and then what?" [04:17]
surial anything that is in the same package can access anything else in that package by top-level type name only without the need for an import statement, and that's the only way you can access things from any unnamed package anywhere. [04:17]
upgrdman surial, fuck, ok. [04:17]
surial upgrdman: Look, now you've upset dreamreal. Oh dear. [04:17]
upgrdman i know right [04:17]
dreamreal I'm not upset in the slightest. I think your emotion detectors are off. [04:17]
upgrdman enough autisiming, back to work [04:18]
surial bleep bloop. [04:19]
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abclove java == c# [06:22]
abclove ? [06:22]
surial abclove: no. stop trolling. [06:23]
surial or if it wasn't a troll, stop being so daft. [06:23]
abclove i mean that java and c# structure is almost same [06:23]
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ricky_clarkson Despite neither language spec referring to the other's. [06:26]
dreamreal abclove: *sigh* do you have a real question? [06:29]
abclove yeah [06:30]
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dreamreal can you ask it? [06:30]
abclove if i learn java or c# like class language, then which is more useful. so which language can work more? [06:30]
dreamreal depends on what environment you want to use. If I were you, I'd go C#. [06:31]
abclove dreamreal: lol you are in #java now [06:31]
tang^ uh huh [06:32]
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tang^ and you are slow, abclove [06:32]
abclove slow? [06:32]
abclove what do you mean? tang^ ? [06:33]
tang^ it's a suggestion that maybe you shouldn't be in ##java... here's your spoon [06:33]
dreamreal abclove: err.... I've been in ##java for pretty much ever [06:33]
dreamreal and I think you should definitely prefer C# [06:33]
dreamreal please [06:33]
abclove please? [06:34]
abclove ( [06:34]
dreamreal that's being nice, you see. I have a request, I say please because I understand politesse. [06:34]
tang^ what language you learn should be driving by what company you're going to work for [06:34]
tang^ anyway, off topic [06:35]
dreamreal tang^: or suitability! He keeps asking questions about java, and C# doesn't really tolerate such things. You do things the C# way and you shut up. That helps abclove quite a bit. [06:35]
dreamreal okay, homework time! [06:35]
cheeser why no homework [06:35]
cheeser dreamreal, We understand you aren't asking us to do your homework. That's not why we don't answer. We don't because 1) You usually don't comprehend the answer and we get stuck in an endless loop of 'why', 2) You will understand, but you'll retort with "my professor doesn't want me to do it this way'. That's frustrating. 3) Homework questions are boring questions. We don't get paid. Your prof does. [06:35]
cheeser D [06:36]
dreamreal cheeser: I wasn't talking about JAVA homework, or even MY homework. I'm helping my son, asshat. :) [06:36]
tang^ dreamreal++ for making me laugh [06:36]
tang^ dreamreal has a karma level of 8, tang^ [06:36]
surial dreamreal: we understand you aren't asking us to do your son's homework. [06:36]
abclove ok anyway can i know newest java version now? [06:37]
sbalmos dreamreal: but he's a redhat, not an asshat. maybe it's the same? [06:37]
cheeser seriously, abclove [06:37]
dreamreal abclove: you certainly can! You can look it up ALL BY YOURSELF! [06:37]
tracks what carnivores are cannibals? [06:37]
abclove we need conversation :( [06:37]
cheeser do some fucking legwork on your own before wasting others' time with basic questions [06:37]
tracks i saw catfish eat each other before [06:37]
tang^ conversation is for other channels [06:37]
cheeser tracks: somewhere else [06:37]
sbalmos we need intelligence [06:37]
surial tracks: try #java-talk [06:38]
tracks ok ill stop [06:38]
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abclove i don?t know what value reference value have unlike pointer of ?pointer?? [06:43]
abclove reference variable [06:43]
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cheeser tutorial [06:44]
cheeser abclove, The Oracle tutorial for Java is probably your best starting point, at https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial . Skip the Netbeans bits. Another option: https://www.ktbyte.com/java-tutorial - https://hackr.io/tutorials/java has a list of others as well. [06:44]
abclove i m reading ?hf 2nd? now, i m in half position now . so it is difficult to change another :( [06:45]
tang^ if you're reading, go read [06:46]
cheeser indeed. [06:46]
tang^ you're going to mess yourself up if you're asking questions that the book probably covers later [06:46]
abclove yeah [06:46]
cheeser and certainly erode any good will among those here willing to help along the way [06:49]
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abclove arrayList.add(new Integer(3) <? this is strange, there is no reference variable, so how it is possible? [06:55]
cheeser there *is* a reference. just no variable. [06:55]
abclove ok [06:56]
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abclove no one know it? [06:57]
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tang^ you don't need to know it [07:02]
abclove tang^: why? [07:02]
tang^ because the value is in the arrayList [07:02]
tang^ but your reading material will probably get around to explaining that anyway [07:03]
abclove tang^: strange it save only reference instead of object :( [07:03]
dreamreal and headfirst java is badly out of date. [07:04]
dreamreal A reference POINTS TO an object. It's a lot like a pointer. It is not a pointer. [07:04]
tang^ books [07:04]
tang^ Some good java books are listed at https://javachannel.org/java-books/. Also see ~general books [07:04]
abclove arrayList.add(new Integer(3) <? this is strange, there is no reference variable, so how it is possible? it save only reference instead of object. dreamreal [07:05]
cheeser Integer i = new Integer(3); [07:06]
dreamreal abclove: it has two references and a variable: the variable is arrayList. The references are, well, the arrayList and the new Integer [07:06]
cheeser apart from *terrible* practice, is not an Integer. it's a reference of type Integer that points to the actual object on the heap [07:06]
dreamreal what do you THINK is happening there? Why do you CARE? Does it work? [07:06]
cheeser "new" returns a reference value not an object [07:06]
abclove ah good cheeser thanks [07:07]
dreamreal cheeser: right, so two references, one of which is a variable [07:07]
dreamreal abclove: are you sure there isn't some other profession you'd rather pursue? [07:07]
cheeser be nice [07:07]
dreamreal I *am* being nice [07:07]
cheeser you're not. [07:07]
dreamreal shall I be mean to show the contrast? [07:07]
dreamreal I mean, I'd rather not [07:08]
cheeser only if i shall be mean op in kind. ;) [07:08]
dreamreal abclove: you're wigging out over details and terms that don't matter. Do the oracle tutorial. It's free. It's not even challenging. If it IS challenging, then perhaps that's Darwin suggesting that you're not ready. [07:08]
dreamreal And there's no shame in that whatsoever. Plenty of brilliant people have no aptitude for programming; plenty of dolts *do* have an aptitude for programming. (See: cheeser.) [07:10]
dreamreal runs [07:10]
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whaley I'm sad you didn't specify me in that example [07:44]
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abclove it is easy to do web scraping with java? [11:54]