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« 2019-10-10


2019-10-12 »

Nick Message Date
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pi0 hey there [01:46]
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pi0 anyone awake heeeeeeelp :D [02:01]
AMcBain You have yet to ask a question. [02:02]
pi0 here is what i am working on [02:04]
pi0 here is the first part of the assignment [02:05]
pi0 how do i keep storing the values [02:06]
pi0 AMcBain: how do i create to keep prompting input and the app holds it [02:08]
AMcBain I hope you realize we're not going to help solve your homework for you. If you had already attempted a good chunk of the assignment and gotten stuck we would be able to help you with pointers in debugging it, but it looks like you've not even gotten started. [02:09]
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pi0 i completely understand, i am asking for direction on how to infinetly prompt the user for numbers [02:11]
pi0 not just a set limit [02:11]
AMcBain while loop. [02:11]
pi0 ah and keep using the pythagorean therom to calc distance every 2 coordinates [02:12]
VicMackey Hello everyone! Is it possible to use a specific import for a certain block of code? Like C++'s "using", which lets you do "using std::cout" and from then on you can use just "cout" bcause it refers to the "std::" namespace. Is it possible to do the same in Java for different code bocks? Thanks in advance"! [02:12]
AMcBain You cannot have block-specific imports, no. You can have static imports which affect the entire file, however. [02:14]
VicMackey Understood AMcBain, thanks ;) [02:15]
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pi0 AMcBain: i need to create a method that prompts the user for the 3 values [02:20]
pi0 x,y, speed [02:20]
pi0 would the method be void? and pass by reference [02:21]
pi0 to my travel monitor class [02:21]
AMcBain Java doesn't do pass by reference. [02:21]
pi0 then pass by value [02:21]
AMcBain Do you know what those terms mean or are you just throwing them out? [02:22]
AMcBain You could pass in an object to modify, or you could have the method return an object configured appropriately, among other things. [02:22]
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dostoyevsky Is swagger like a general interface for rest apis? [02:38]
VicMackey I think it's more like an specification for APIs [02:39]
VicMackey Like a way to define your APIs [02:39]
VicMackey Schematically [02:39]
VicMackey That way both the client and the producer can now what to bind to [02:40]
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VicMackey Then the generators and other stuff that has been built around it is a different thing [02:40]
VicMackey Sorry dostoyevsky. I said the same thing you said with different words :facepalm: [02:41]
VicMackey Ye, it's like an interface [02:41]
dostoyevsky VicMackey: I was thinking of interface as a UI, though.... not like a schema... A schema could help verifying if you are using an API in a syntactically correct way? [02:43]
dostoyevsky So a schema that would replace something like GET("https://server/api/v1/items") with something like `api_server.get().items()' ? [02:46]
VicMackey No. for example, this file gives you a schema of the API you will be accessing or producing, depending on which side you are developing. However, openapi and swagger have nice "generators" or "interpreters" that interpret that file and give you this nice UI [02:50]
VicMackey VicMackey's title: "OpenAPI-Specification/petstore.yaml at master OAI/OpenAPI-Specification GitHub" [02:50]
VicMackey [02:50]
VicMackey Well, sorry, yes. Kind of what you said. God this morning I'm still asleep [02:52]
VicMackey The thing is: swagger and openapi INITIALLY won't generate anything for you. You may have that fancy UI that helps you debug and test your generated API, but you will have to implement it yourself [02:52]
VicMackey Unless, you use one of the code gneerators they provide [02:53]
VicMackey I don't know if I that makes sense. I'm sorrry about the confusion [02:53]
newbieG Can anyone explain the underlined part(it's saying completely opposite) [02:57]
VicMackey newbieG I guess "Executive" would be a Subtype of something that is supertype of Manager? I think they might have made a mistake with the docs maybe? [03:02]
VicMackey I understand it as you do [03:02]
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newbieG VicMackey, here Employee is a super class of Manager and Executive is a super class [03:07]
newbieG Maybe it's a typo [03:07]
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jink newbieG: Consider a Pair<? super Manager> that could be a Pair<Manager> or Pair<Employee> or Pair<Object> since those are the supertypes of Manager. Since you can't know which one the developer chooses (Manager, Employee or Object) the compiler will only accept Manager. After all, a Manager fits in a Pair<Object> but an Object won't fit in a Pair<Manager>. [03:13]
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newbieG jink, I got that point but that underlined part is saying opposite i.e. you cannot pass object or employee [03:14]
jink Which is what I explained above. [03:15]
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newbieG jink, it also says it can accept subtype of Manager can you explain it please [03:19]
newbieG Is super type and super class is opposite thing [03:19]
vy Hey! Is Maven Central out of order or just me? Deploying an artifact is taking ages. And releasing them via doesn't work. [03:20]
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newbieG .... I have gone through this video at this exact point he is saying *T* appears as a super type of that type .... And it seems like super type and super class are opposite [03:22]
newbieG newbieG's title: "The Good, Bad, and Ugly of Java Generics - YouTube" [03:22]
jink newbieG: No, it's the same thing. ? super Manager means Manager / Employee / Object. So, you know the ? is one of those types. And because it is, you can use any subtype of Manager, too, since those will fit in Manager / Employee / Object. [03:22]
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bendem I sometimes wonder how hard it would be to generate a builder for an object that enforces all fields set before exposing the build method. [03:29]
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bendem Basically, it would generate a separate class for each field with only one method and that method would return the instance for the next field to set. Once done, the last instance only has a build method [03:30]
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plitter I'm usinge hibernate which returns either a List<Object> or an List<Object[]> depending on number of values pr row, I would like to group this by a string in the object[], but when I do it is saying "array required, but Object found" [04:16]
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jink plitter: groupingBy(data -> ((Object[])data)[0].toString()) and get rid of the map(..) ? [04:30]
macroprep how do you avoid code duplication when a class is to be used on a class with an array of X and a class with an array of an array of X, that both should offer the exact same functions for both classes [04:41]
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Stummi macroprep, what? Can you please provide some example code showing your problem? [04:45]
willvarfar I have static initializers that will call a Manager.addThing(). In that Manager.addThing() it will add to a static collection etc. Can I ensure that the static collection in the Manager is initialized before the static initializers in the Things that are going to register themselves with the manager? [04:46]
Stummi willvarfar, you initialize the collection in the field declaration? [04:47]
willvarfar yes I do [04:47]
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Stummi then yes, you can [04:47]
willvarfar but how do I know the manager's field declarations are initialized before the static initializer is invoked in a thing? [04:47]
willvarfar its two classes, and I'm wondering about how to ensure the Manager is initialized before the Thing [04:47]
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Stummi whenever the JVM loads a class for the first time, static initializer code is invoked immediately [04:48]
willvarfar yes, and the order of the initialization _within_ a class is clear [04:49]
willvarfar but what is the order between classes in the jar? is there one? [04:49]
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Stummi no, a Class will be loaded when it is referenced first [04:50]
plitter jink: error: incompatible types: Object cannot be converted to Map<String,List<Object[]>> [04:50]
Slamz java development is becoming such a pain after they adapted the new release cycle, is 13 new LTS after 11 or did they do away with those when I blinked? [04:51]
Stummi willvarfar, [04:51]
macroprep for example... for class A, fun A i call v1 = VectorCoreInternal<T>() /* ... */ action(v1, vA.getOrZero(index), vB.getOrZero(index)), and fun B i call sum = parent.addition(sum, parent.getOrZero(index)), but for class B, fun A i call v1 = VectorSpace() /* ... */ v1.addDimension(vA[index].AlgorithmHook.elementWiseOperation(vB[index], action).toVectorCore()), and for fun B i call sum = addition(sum, get(it).AlgorithmHook.sum()) [04:52]
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willvarfar Stummi aha! thx [04:53]
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rajrajraj What library is there for documentation. Considered swagger, but it seems comments can't be written. Or rather how do people create API documentation [04:56]
macroprep rajrajraj: IDE's built in documentation Viewer? (CTRL+Q) [04:57]
Stummi rajrajraj, *what* do you want to document? [04:57]
macroprep or as in man page documentation [04:58]
rajrajraj Stummi: rest apis [04:58]
macroprep eg man java.API [04:58]
Stummi rajrajraj, what do you mean with "comments" in this context? [04:58]
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rajrajraj E.g. I would like to describe what is the meaning of a key in json [04:58]
Stummi rajrajraj, swagger is the standard way to document rest apis [04:58]
Stummi rajrajraj, this is totally possible in a swagger schema [04:59]
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rajrajraj Stummi: haven't seen it [04:59]
rajrajraj Tried googling couldn't see [04:59]
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Stummi rajrajraj, properties can just have a description key in the swagger spec [05:00]
rajrajraj Stummi: can you show me an example [05:02]
Stummi [05:03]
Stummi or here: [05:03]
Stummi or, wait [05:04]
Diablo-D3 ponders [05:04]
Diablo-D3 hey guys, is there a swagger for ffi type interfaces? [05:05]
Stummi rajrajraj, for example look in [05:05]
Stummi there you have a description field [05:05]
rajrajraj Stummi: sat the pet API. Where do they have description for each json field [05:05]
Stummi ... what? [05:05]
Stummi the json fields are part of the API [05:06]
Stummi and they are described in said API spec [05:06]
rajrajraj Stummi: but where are they described is what I can't find out [05:06]
Stummi rajrajraj, can you share how much you have so far for your spec? Because I don't really understand where your lack of understanding is [05:07]
rajrajraj Stummi: do you mean the description is shown separately in models? [05:07]
Stummi rajrajraj, yes [05:07]
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Stummi rajrajraj, they didn't add description to all model fields. But to Pet.status as an example [05:08]
Stummi and you can do this with every field [05:08]
rajrajraj Stummi: got it [05:09]
Stummi cool [05:09]
rajrajraj Now here is a thing [05:09]
rajrajraj I could have same object expecting in two different apis [05:10]
Stummi OpenAPI has some way to reference files and load schemas from there. I think swagger can do this as well, but you have to make that research yourself [05:11]
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dreamreal lts [05:30]
dreamreal dreamreal, lts is short for "long term support": Releases for which vendors of JDK distros pledged long-term support (years vs. 6 months). LTS Versions: 8, 11, and 17. Note that ALL Oracle OpenJDK releases are only supported for 6 months, even LTS versions; LTS only applies to AdoptOpenJDK, coretto, Azul, and commercial OracleVM. Use ~adoptopenjdk. [05:30]
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dreamreal Slamz: ^^^ [05:30]
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Slamz thanks. definitely should be marked clearly on openjdk site what's LTS and what's not. [05:32]
Stummi how much relevance has the Oracle JDK by now? I mean with Oracle beeing nasty in different ways and multiple easy to (legally) use alternatives, are there much people still using Oracle? [05:33]
dreamreal Wouldn't know, you'd need to ask them. $work's policy is to require oracle, and AFAIK exactly 0% of deployments pay attention to it. [05:33]
bendem big bucks companies relying on oracle extended support I guess [05:33]
sonOfRa Stummi: yes [05:33]
sonOfRa A *lot* of people still very strongly believe that openjdk isn't feature complete [05:34]
bendem my first guess would be: airports, hospitals [05:34]
dreamreal those places are probably not using new versions of java for critical-path stuff anyway, maybe not java at all [05:35]
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bendem dreamreal, worked a few times with airport software it's java [05:40]
dreamreal bendem: right. For critical path stuff? [05:40]
dreamreal Like... airplaces, flight control software in the tower? [05:40]
bendem I don't know, I worked on the tooling for message handling/routing which impacts realtime planning, which I'm guessing impacts flight control [05:42]
dreamreal I'm probably out of date, but it USED to be that using java for direct medical care, flight control on planes, missile controls, stuff like that was not allowed because of the JVM not generating absolutely predictable code: you couldn't step through the generated machine code and guarantee that what you stepped through would be executed [05:42]
dreamreal that's not the same thing, though [05:42]
bendem it was not a consumer airport mind you, only cargo [05:42]
dreamreal SABRE is written in java, for example [05:42]
bendem the code I wrote basically made sure everybody who needed to know knew about incoming and outgoing flights and kept updated about statuses of flights [05:43]
Stummi sonOfRa, but Oracle JDK is just OpenJDK with some fancy package, isn't it? [05:44]
dreamreal Again, maybe it's changed, but that would require a relaxing of the rules on a MASSIVE scale (and would lighten the burden of mission-critical code dramatically) [05:44]
dreamreal Stummi: yes [05:44]
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sonOfRa yes. But years ago, there may have been some things that only worked on oracle jdk [05:44]
sonOfRa The belief that this is still the case is still widespread [05:44]
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Marco-123 hi all. google is not helping. i have to create some method stubs for another team. in place of a db, i want to have a simple static map of data for this purpose. no problem, but i'd love to be able to run some intelligent queries on it (sort by some fields, select by some fields). question: is there a primitive 'table-like' structure i can use [05:49]
Marco-123 just to get this stub done? [05:49]
bendem h2 [05:50]
bendem bendem, h2 is Tomas Mueller's rewrite of HSQL (He is also the original author of HSQL). It is open source, mostly postgresql-syntax compatible, embeddable, and 100% java. . [05:50]
Marco-123 thanks very much! [05:51]
Marco-123 something less powerful and more primitive preferred, but im not complaining [05:52]
dreamreal uh... [05:52]
ricky_clarkson h2 is primitive. [05:52]
dreamreal you can do it with streams, but why? h2 is easy, small, light, fast as hell [05:52]
dreamreal "primitive" - it's pretty full featured [05:53]
ricky_clarkson its oracle mode didn't support some weird syntax I needed :) [05:53]
Stummi probably "primitive" in the sense that there is no much overhead/boilerplate to use it [05:53]
ricky_clarkson Right. [05:53]
dreamreal sighs [05:54]
mbooth I'm... Not sure that's what primitive means. [05:55]
Marco-123 to clarify, i didn't mean to imply that h2 is primitive. [05:55]
dreamreal Marco-123: we know. We can read. :) [05:55]
Marco-123 smh [05:56]
Marco-123 gonna go with your steams idea. that's as powerful as i need. [05:57]
[twisti] pretty sure theres some java library that allows sql-like queries on maps and lists, but i cant think of the name [05:57]
dreamreal Marco-123: the good thing about h2 and its like is that you can write stubs that actually provide the features you want in such a way that they're translateable to ... non-stubs fairly easily [05:58]
dreamreal integration and the like becomes *super-easy*, barely an inconvenience [05:58]
Marco-123 i gtg. but thanks for your help all. [05:58]
dreamreal enjoy! [05:58]
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macroprep is it true that java has some kind of vector/vectorSpace/LinearAlgebra class? [06:16]
mbooth macroprep: What did you read? [06:17]
mbooth You can probably verify such a claim by looking in the API Javadocs ;-) [06:17]
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macroprep [19:46] <dreamreal> why are you writing this, I'm pretty sure java has such things already [06:18]
macroprep [19:45] <macroprep> this is the algorithm class for VectorCore and this is the algorithm class for VectorSpaceCore [06:18]
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macroprep mbooth: that [06:22]
mitch0 hm. does the @PropertySource thing done by spring include the system properties (overlayed with the property file specified in the @PropertySource annotation)? [06:22]
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mbooth macroprep: I'm sure there's no such thing in Java, but there are plenty of math libraries. Did you try searching for such a library? apache-commons-math has all kinds of matrix and vector functionality for example [06:26]
macroprep mbooth: ok, as im trying to create my own vector library [06:27]
mbooth macroprep: Okay, so you're asking if there are Vector classes, but you're not going to use them? [06:28]
surial mbooth: for context, macroprep has been trying to do this for close to a month now. He is impervious to learning, at least, none of 'us' (me, dreamreal, and according to dreamreal, other semiregulars of teh channel) have managed to find an angle that works. [06:28]
surial mbooth: By all means try, just... I hope your patience levels are up to this gargantuan task. [06:29]
mbooth I mean, normal humans thanks for the heads up ;-) [06:31]
macroprep mbooth: no, im asking if there are any, and if so are they open source, so i can see how they are represented/structured [06:33]
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macroprep internally [06:33]
mbooth macroprep: Okay, you'd have to try VERY hard to google for and open source math library for Java and not find one ;-) [06:34]
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plitter so found the issue, need to cast the first List to List<Object[]>, can anyone explain why or kick me in the direction of documentation that would explain it to me? [06:36]
macroprep mbooth: i have found a few, but, at the moment im just looking for a library that offers vectors and vector spaces only, not vectors and matricies and everything else [06:39]
surial plitter: mixing generics and arrays hurts in all cases. [06:41]
surial plitter: presumably here, 'data' is not, in fact, an Object[] but some other type of array. String[] perhaps. [06:41]
surial plitter: you CAN cast arrays around like this, but it's not typesafe. [06:41]
plitter surial: when it comes to sql you can't be sure about what is coming back... [06:43]
macroprep in particular, one that follows what a real vector/vector space would provide, eg no vector subtraction, no Element by element multiplication, division, and no Scalar addition, subtraction, division or power, (as those operations do not exist for such a vector) [06:43]
surial plitter: hibernate evidently thinks it knows. [06:43]
surial plitter: you can ask the array its component type, then you'd know. theArrayRef.getCLass().getComponentType(). [06:43]
surial I bet it is NOT object. [06:43]
surial also your iDE should just know the sig here, as well. [06:43]
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mbooth macroprep: Maybe I'm not as familiar with vector math as you. Why would these operations not exist, and why can't you just ignore these operations in the vector implementations that you found? [06:45]
plitter according to this it just always returns list indicating that it doesn't know, right? [06:45]
plitter plitter's title: "Query (Hibernate JavaDocs)" [06:45]
macroprep mbooth: cus wikipedia (and linear algebra books) do not define nor mention them [06:46]
macroprep thus i only assume they are "added" for compatibility with what ever languages math system it is to be implemented for [06:47]
plitter surial: how would the compiler know at compiletime what should be returned from the DB? [06:47]
mbooth macroprep: That doesn't explain why you can't ignore them? [06:47]
surial it wouldn't, but as I said, hibernate evidently thinks it does. [06:47]
surial note that hibernate is a tool that explicitly tries to say that it would. It isn't really an SQL tool, it's an object oriented persistence store that so happens to be backed by SQL, and that implementation detail leaks through all the time. [06:48]
macroprep eg if it supports vector addition why not support subtraction, multiplication, and division aswell for the sake of completeness [06:48]
mbooth macroprep: Yeah I get it, but that doesn't explain why you can't ignore the ops you aren't interested in? [06:48]
[twisti] surial i was thinking of a library earlier but couldnt remember the name, and i think you recommended it - it basically let you run sql like queries on java collections. ring any bells ? [06:49]
macroprep mbooth: cus it makes the source code unnessicarily complicated to sort through [06:49]
plitter surial: I should have prefaced this by saying that I'm not using HQL, but SQL query [06:49]
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plitter [twisti]: I got a recommendation some time ago about jooq [06:50]
plitter hibernate also supports setting a parameter list [06:50]
macroprep the more stuff a library offers the more complicated its source code becomes, and i dont like complicated [06:50]
[twisti] plitter: isnt jooq a framework to generate SQL queries ? [06:51]
plitter [twisti]: I didn't get to far into it since I found that PreparedStatement didn't do work the way I hoped it too.... [06:53]
surial plitter: Okay, but, as I said, hibernate/JPA isn't about that. The fact that you CAN type SQL is simply the leaky abstraction showing through. [06:53]
Bombe Hahahaha! [06:54]
Bombe <macroprep> [?] and i dont like complicated [06:54]
Bombe This is pure comedy gold! [06:54]
surial plitter: it's like using a screwdriver by hammering in a nail by bashing at it with the back of your screwdriver. It works. sort of. but weird shit occurs. The material isn't really ready to deal with that kind of force, there isn't an easy way to protect your thumb, etc. [06:54]
surial and don't go running to the maker of the screwdriver about their shoddy hammer. Perhaps do whine at them for making it unclear that this really ISNT what you were menat to do though :) [06:54]
[twisti] plitter: i have no idea at all how what you said relates to my question :| [06:54]
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surial [twisti]: I don't recall; I doubt it, that doesn't ring a bell. Sounds like microsoft C# LINQ. [06:55]
[twisti] damn, ill have to wait and hope it comes back to me then [06:55]
surial plitter: JOOQ and JDBI are libraries that are specifically intended for you to write SQL in java and make the experience as nice as possible, with a nice way to make queries, to make methods marshal as queries, and to map the resulting ResultSet entries into an object. [06:56]
surial I'd use that. [06:56]
surial [twisti]: 'LINQ but for java' might be a worthwhile search. [06:57]
plitter [twisti]: hummmm, I reread your question and I misunderstood what you meant, I thought it was to use a collection in a sqlquery and not querying a collection like sql [06:59]
[twisti] hah i think that actually worked surial, i was thinking of JaQu [06:59]
[twisti] which incidentally is from H2, which was a topic here earlier, explaining why i thought of it [07:00]
[twisti] wait no, thats not it [07:00]
Bombe Dammit, [twisti], get your shit together! [07:00]
[twisti] meh, who cares, since the advent of streams thats probably the go-to-idiom anyways [07:01]
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NoctisShadowzel Hello! I want to ask something; I'm generating an identicon via an Java application. Identicon is 9x9 and I'm saving it as scaled to 512x512. I want to use this image with Image Recognition. Before sending this image to IR algorithm, I want to produce its modified versions. Scaled up/down, resolution changed, pixelized etc. How can produce modified [07:12]
NoctisShadowzel versions of the said image using Java? What must I use? [07:12]
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macroprep [20:28] <surial> mbooth: for context, macroprep has been trying to do this for close to a month now. He is impervious to learning, at least, none of 'us' (me, dreamreal, and according to dreamreal, other semiregulars of teh channel) have managed to find an angle that works. [07:14]
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macroprep also i... AM trying to learn [07:15]
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dreamreal we know you're trying to learn, macroprep - you're just failing in caustic ways [07:35]
dmlloyd a thing to be aware of is that this room contains, to my knowledge, zero actual educators [07:36]
dreamreal dmlloyd: depends on the definition of educators [07:36]
dmlloyd I mean people who were specifically trained as such [07:36]
dreamreal was a homeschooling parent for ... 14 years? [07:36]
dreamreal note also that at least one op is a university professor [07:37]
dmlloyd my point isn't about qualification per se [07:37]
dreamreal or was [07:37]
dmlloyd it's about the fact that learning means starting from square one [07:37]
dmlloyd and nobody in here is likely to have the time to walk someone from square one to where they want to go [07:37]
cheeser dmlloyd: square zero, chump [07:37]
dmlloyd I was being nice for the NORMALS cheeser jeez [07:37]
dreamreal yeah, well, SAY THAT, dope! [07:37]
dmlloyd my point is that this isn't a classroom [07:38]
dmlloyd but classrooms *exist* for this stuff [07:38]
dreamreal true dat [07:38]
dmlloyd a free virtual classroom is a great idea though, now that I think of it [07:39]
dreamreal the problem is that some students would disrupt it [07:39]
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dmlloyd the great thing about a virtual classroom is that you can mute :) [07:40]
dreamreal in a "virtual classroom" of 30, one macro preprocessor would suck up 95% of the classtime and wreck everything [07:40]
dreamreal true [07:40]
dmlloyd you'd really need staff though, a teacher, TAs for answering questions on side channels maybe, a moderator or two [07:41]
dreamreal I wonder if a #java-class would work somehow [07:42]
mbooth Even if we were educators in here, we're still giving up our time for free. If you won't even look at something because it MIGHT be slightly complex, then well, I don't have time for that. (Not even touching the fact that if you don't like complexity, then this might not be the profession for you...) [07:42]
cheeser [narrator: it wouldn't] [07:42]
dmlloyd hrh [07:43]
dmlloyd yeah IRC isn't really a good medium for this [07:43]
dmlloyd you'd want real coursework, with video and some video interaction perhaps [07:43]
dmlloyd child wranglin' time, bbiab [07:43]
mbooth dmlloyd: What did you think you were doing in *here*? Wrangling grown adults? :-p [07:44]
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dreamreal I have thought of trying to write a "java you'll need" book of some kind [07:49]
dreamreal like "java: the important bits" or whatever, but didn't get very far before getting bored with it [07:49]
LaSombra That sounds a bit like the "The well-grounded Java developer" book [07:53]
dreamreal I haven't read it, so maybe it is [07:53]
dreamreal I was mostly thinking "how would I teach java" and then remembered I wouldn't be a good teacher for basic concepts [07:54]
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mitch0 moo [09:36]
deathcap bar [09:37]
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dreamreal deathcap: should be iar, you idiot [10:11]
deadbeat oO [10:13]
Cyp_ baaah [10:14]
dreamreal D [10:14]
dreamreal (Hopefully the reason why is obvious) [10:14]
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deadbeat i was just feeling that "idiot" is a bit strong there.. [10:15]
dreamreal deadbeat: it's also entirely tongue-in-cheek, and deathcap knows it [10:15]
dreamreal which I would have thought would be obvious to observers, too, considering the nonsensical stimulus :) [10:17]
dreamreal anyway, later [10:17]
mbooth Ignore the hard-of-thinking, it did in fact read as tongue-in-cheek ;-) [10:18]
deadbeat it was, maybe it's just me feeling that way about "idiot" :) [10:18]
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dostoyevsky Are java modules more of a semantic change to Java? I don't really see much unusual when writing Java code after coming back to it after 10 years or so... [10:21]
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mbooth dostoyevsky: It's kinda like a re-invention of OSGi, if you ever did any of that. [10:27]
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zalt__ how bad is it to write java with snake case [10:33]
zalt__ any code bases that do this? [10:33]
zalt__ hates camel case, the only alternatives other than camelCase he likes are ThisCase and This_Case [10:34]
mbooth zalt__: Consistency of style is more important than choice of style [10:34]
zalt__ true [10:35]
zalt__ as long as you don't use mPrefix, if you do then i'd have a problem with you [10:36]
mbooth zalt__: Eh, a lot of old code bases do that. And you know what? I follow suite when I contribute to them. For your own project? Just pick a style and stop worrying about it [10:37]
zalt__ lol, i think that comes from C++? [10:38]
zalt__ i thought it was weird when i first encountered it in java code, i've only seen this in C++ [10:38]
mbooth zalt__: It comes from hungarian notation [10:39]
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mbooth Which became obsolete when tooling learned to give you more and better info about a variable than it's name ever could [10:41]
zalt__ ugh that reminds me of win32's names like lpcstr [10:42]
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zalt__ i believe they were obselete the moment they were created, even back then compilers knew what the hell types were [10:42]
zalt__ that being said, i hate features like "var foo =" inference [10:43]
zalt__ programmers should know the types they're dealing with [10:44]
mbooth zalt__: No, my IDE should know the types. There's no way to keep in mind all the dozens of projects I work on every day. [10:46]
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zalt__ that's the thing, it's exactly because you can't keep them in mind that i think it's bad [10:47]
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zalt__ also code becomes easier to read when types are there [10:49]
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Yukkuri hi, is there anything like BeanUtils for static class properties? [10:58]
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Yukkuri to resolve a property via dotted path [10:58]
Yukkuri but without object instance in this case [10:59]
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snickers someone know how to disable directory listing in jetty? [03:37]
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ricky_clarkson I agree with zalt__ (hours ago), "var foo =" should only be used where the type is obvious/unimportant. [03:56]
ricky_clarkson var s = "hello"; var result = ...; return result; but not var stream =; [03:57]
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tang^ source [04:05]
tang^ you can download my source at [04:05]
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dostoyevsky when I do `@RequestBody A article' in spring boot does that automatically call all the setters for the values that I set in the POST's body? Apparently it does... but not sure how it works ;-) [04:29]
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wad I've got a suite of JUnit 4 tests, in a bunch of classes. I've got a method I'd like to run before any of them execute, and if it says to, abort running ALL the tests. [04:59]
viraltaco_ Hi [04:59]
wad Ideas? Reading about @BeforeClass, but that's just on the class level. [04:59]
viraltaco_ Is it normal that the jvm uses more memory than how much cache I have (that includes L1, L2 and L3 COMBINED) [05:00]
viraltaco_ I must have it misconfigured [05:00]
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viraltaco_ By that I mean it's more than 30 MiB for just an hello world? It also take more time to compile, start and run than c or c++? Still normal? [05:02]
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yawkat sure [05:18]
yawkat not sure how cache is relevant though [05:18]
viraltaco_ Oh? Here is why: [05:22]
viraltaco_ viraltaco_'s title: "How Does CPU Cache Work and What Are L1, L2, and L3?" [05:22]
yawkat i know what a cache is [05:23]
yawkat i dont know how your resident size is relevant to it [05:23]
viraltaco_ define resident in this context [05:23]
yawkat memory usage [05:24]
viraltaco_ Oh? That's because cache has a size limit [05:24]
yawkat and? [05:24]
viraltaco_ each level has a different size limit (on my cpu) [05:24]
yawkat an application does not suddenly become faster by fitting entirely into L3 [05:25]
viraltaco_ No? The cpu stalling while it fetches instructions stored on the heap doesn't make your application slower [05:25]
viraltaco_ Wait? [05:25]
viraltaco_ Yes. It does. [05:26]
yawkat ... [05:26]
yawkat i recommend you get a basic understanding of computer architecture before making baseless claims about it [05:27]
yawkat anyway, you got your answer. [05:27]
yawkat next [05:27]
yawkat Another satisfied customer. Next! [05:27]
viraltaco_ Are you kidding? [05:27]
viraltaco_ You want to tell me that x86 isn't a von neumann architecture? What exactly is it that you're saying? [05:28]
viraltaco_ If the whole executable cannot fit on the cache you're almost guaranteed to have cache misses even with speculative execution [05:29]
cheeser i think you have a weak grasp on subjects and are flailing for answers. that's what it sounds like to me. [05:29]
viraltaco_ Teach me then [05:29]
cheeser uh. no? i have more important things going on. [05:30]
viraltaco_ Like not knowing how your cpu works? [05:30]
cheeser actually, no. because i do know that. [05:30]
yawkat viraltaco_: do you have a java question? [05:31]
viraltaco_ are you saying that memory is as fast as cache [05:31]
cheeser oh, ffs. [05:31]
viraltaco_ i mean heap. RAM [05:31]
viraltaco_ Fine. If that's what you're saying I guess this google benchmark must all be wrong [05:32]
cheeser no one is saying that, dude. [05:32]
viraltaco_ Then I'm interpreting it wrong? [05:32]
cheeser are you really this obtuse? [05:33]
viraltaco_ I wonder why you're defensive, I'm here to learn. I asked if it was normal. [05:33]
cheeser i'm not defensive. you're making grand leaps and odd interpretations and coming to utterly senseless conclusions. [05:34]
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viraltaco_ Ok then you need to tell me which part it is. Because to me it looks like it sure is wasting a lot of time accessing memory. Now, ok, my bad maybe I should do live analysis. In fact I'll just go do that. [05:36]
cheeser i don't need to do anything. [05:36]
yawkat youll be amazed when you see applications intentionally memory-map stuff, increasing memory use, to *improve* performance [05:37]
viraltaco_ So you don't NEED to act like a dick? [05:38]
viraltaco_ good to know. [05:38]
yawkat yes, it's ##java. [05:38]
kicked viraltaco_ (Banned: well, now i feel compelled to ... this ban will expire after 7d) [05:38]
wad I knew that guy was gonna be banned. Deserved it. LOL [05:39]
cheeser total dick [05:39]
wad nods [05:39]
wad I even sent him a private message. [05:39]
cheeser it's not his first time here. or ban. :) [05:40]
wad As soon as he started to flare up, I told him privately to calm down, and demonstrate some humility, if he wants to get good results. [05:40]
wad Some people have no concept for how these IRC communities operate. Nobody gets paid to hang around here and help people. Have some respect for Good People doing Good Things. [05:41]
wad </rant> #back to code [05:41]
cheeser basically. "don't get all demandy when asking for free help" [05:41]
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yawkat wad: i think you need a custom runner if you want to go beyond @Before and @BeforeClass [05:42]
wad I found a solution. [05:42]
wad I just made a little class, with a static boolean `hasAlreadyRun`. [05:43]
cheeser yawkat: i think so, too. i was thinking @BeforeSuite but that's testng [05:43]
wad Each test class has a `@BeforeClass` method that, calls a method on that class, which checks the boolen. [05:44]
wad Easy-peasy. [05:44]
wad Not very elegant, but it should work. [05:44]
yawkat i always set up my junit tests to call into testng instead! [05:45]
wad LOL, big Cedric fan, ey? [05:45]
ricky_clarkson That viral taco guy actually seemed fairly reasonable, just slightly off-kilter. Despite the attitude he was responding to information. [05:45]
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ricky_clarkson I thought Cedric was the main testng user. [05:46]
wad He wrote it. [05:46]
ricky_clarkson No shit. [05:46]
yawkat my cedric fanboyism is limited to testng. [05:48]
wad I actually used his tutorial to learn to solve the Rubick's Cube. [05:49]
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MR-D05 smart people of this channel, why am i getting ConcurrentModificationException at line 52 here [06:12]
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MR-D05 i know my solution here is clunky and awkward, but I still don't know why its failing [06:13]
ernimril MR-D05, changing a collection while using an iterator over it [06:13]
MR-D05 ok [06:13]
ernimril MR-D05, what do you do on line 53? [06:13]
cheeser MR-D05: the javadoc for the exception explains it [06:13]
MR-D05 remove the index at the head of the queue [06:14]
MR-D05 not sure if index is the right word [06:14]
ernimril MR-D05, not the type of answer I wanted. Again: what collection are you iterating over at line 52? what are you doing on line 53? [06:15]
MR-D05 priority queue [06:15]
MR-D05 priorityQueue0 [06:15]
ChaiTRex MR-D05: In a lot of cases, you can mutate items themselves when iterating over a collection, but you can't mutate *which* items are in the collection while iterating over it. Here, you're removing an item from the collection while iterating over it. [06:24]
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MR-D05 ok [06:28]
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dostoyevsky I find it a little surprising that spring boot lists java and kotlin examples in the documentation... is kotlin a mainstream language these days? [08:01]
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bomb no [08:08]
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orbyt_ dostoyevsky Yes, though more so in the Android ecosystem. [08:18]
dostoyevsky ah, makes sense [08:19]
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dreamreal dostoyevsky: yes, it is, and it's growing all the time [08:51]
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