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« 2020-09-15

2020-09-16

2020-09-17 »

Nick Message Date
dfee [dfee!~dfee@162-227-164-101.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##java [12:11]
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kicked Jogdand (Banned: please fix your connection. you're bouncing in and out. this ban will expire after 3d) [12:17]
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cixx hi. [03:49]
cixx i had heard that java would be an embedded for each project. so there would not be necessary to install java system-wide [03:50]
db it is possible to do that. [03:51]
[twisti] s/would be/can be/ [03:51]
cixx is there a tool or something to make a configuration like pom.xml and automatically download the related java version via like make install etc [03:51]
Zednan Anyone knows of a good tutorial integrating GWT+GXT+Gin/Guice+GWTP ? [04:06]
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mbooth cixx: jlink is the canonical way of bundling java with a project [04:37]
mbooth jlink [04:37]
mbooth cixx, jlink is a tool to assemble and optimize a set of modules and their dependencies into a custom runtime image. For documentation, see https://docs.oracle.com/en/java/javase/11/tools/jlink.html . [04:37]
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cixx mbooth: thank you [04:47]
plitter If you have a sortedset and you want to use it to find a value, would you stream it to avoid creating new objects? It is probably going to be used a couple of 100k times... [04:50]
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mbooth plitter: "avoid creating new objects" is not really a reason to use streaming [04:59]
mbooth plitter: If you do an enhanced for loop for example: for (Type t : ts) then t does not point to new objects, it points to existing objects in the ts collection [05:01]
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plitter mbooth: sure, but if I want to find an object based on some variables in my SortedSet the way I currently know how is to do set.subSet(new Class(var1, var2), new Class(var1, var2)) [05:03]
plitter vs set.stream().filter(elem -> elem.var1.equals(var1)).filter(elem -> elem.var2.equals(var2)).findFirst(); [05:06]
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mbooth plitter: Use whichever you find easier to read. Worrying about the creation of two objects is like worrying about driving over two ants. Can you actually measure any performance difference? [05:08]
arcanescu https://beta.voxxeddays.com/blog/2015/01/embracing-void-6-refined-tricks-dealing-nulls-java/ - any one know of alternate to where i can read this article ... seems to be down [05:08]
plitter mbooth: if you stack 100k ants pyramidwise I think the car would have slight issues at least :P But I see your point. [05:11]
mbooth plitter: You could do, for example: Class needle = new Class(v1, v2); for (Class c : set) { if (c.equals(needle)) {return Set.of(c) } } [05:12]
mbooth plitter: but to be honest, it feels like you are not following the ~rules of optimisation [05:14]
plitter true... I'll leave it be. Optimize when there are issues :) [05:15]
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Diablo-D3 heh java 15 is out now? [06:03]
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bendem Diablo-D3, yup https://jdk.java.net/15/release-notes [06:25]
Albright [Albright!~Albright@2001:19f0:6001:1b15:d8d3:f7b9:9e9a:ef8e] has joined ##java [06:46]
dreamreal Guten Morgen [06:46]
Albright I am an experienced web developer (primarily with PHP). What framework(s) should I consider if I wanted to build a dynamic web site in Java? [06:48]
dreamreal impossible to answer - consider using a javascript front end and write the backing services with java [06:48]
dreamreal web frameworks [06:48]
dreamreal Popular web frameworks: Dropwizard, Struts 2, Spring Boot, Stripes, Wicket, and Spark. Ask me about each for more info. Ask me about 'other web frameworks' for exotic choices that are not recommended. [06:48]
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Albright dreamreal: I will be doing templating on the server side as God intended. [06:50]
Albright Dropwizard [06:50]
Albright Dropwizard is a "full stack" Java framework for REST-oriented services, bundling Jetty, JAX-RS (Jersey), Jackson, metrics, and other common libraries. Find it at http://dropwizard.io . [06:50]
Albright Struts looks sane and active. [06:56]
db uh [06:56]
db no [06:56]
db just use spring boot [06:57]
Albright db: Which do you object to? "Sane" or "Active?" [06:57]
db both [06:57]
dreamreal yes [06:57]
dreamreal struts is probably ... no [06:57]
Albright Spring Boot [06:57]
Albright Spring Boot is a framework that incorporates Tomcat, Jetty, or Undertow directly, along with many other features, to serve as a ready-made container for apps. See https://projects.spring.io/spring-boot/ for a better description. [06:57]
dreamreal struts 2 started out really well but then became struts [06:57]
Albright "container for apps" rules it out for me. [06:57]
Albright Or I guess I should say it's a major initial turn-off. But I'll look into it deeper. [06:58]
dreamreal why [06:59]
db spring boot is sane and active [06:59]
dreamreal means you aren't tied to a standard java ee deployment cycle [06:59]
dreamreal dropwizard and quarkus and micronaut all use the same paradigm, inspired by boot, and jakarta ee containers these days are seen as being a bit quaint because of it [06:59]
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ruurd Albright nooononono it actually saves you a lot of hassle. [07:23]
Albright ruurd: What does? [07:23]
ruurd spring boot does [07:23]
ruurd then if you combine it with the likes of Pivotal Cloud Foundry... [07:24]
ruurd \o/ \o/ autoconfiguration [07:24]
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dreamreal Albright: relevant: https://www.reddit.com/r/java/comments/itlzcg/what_replaced_apache_tiles/ [07:26]
dreamreal also: netbeans 12.1 has been released. All 14 users can rejoice in yet more things that won't work! [07:28]
ADG1089 [ADG1089!~adg1089@122.163.169.141] has joined ##java [07:30]
Albright That so many of those answers are of the "Just build a web application!" type is dismaying. Progressive enhancement may be dying but I will go down with it. [07:31]
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dreamreal Albright: what do you mean? [07:32]
Albright By which part? [07:32]
dreamreal I was pointing out all the people who were suggesting thymeleaf (by implication, simple template generation, similar to what you'd do in JSP or PHP, except with neither JSP nor PHP) [07:32]
Albright Yeah, I was looking at thymeleaf earlier very briefly, and it looked sane. [07:33]
yawkat js frameworks are so good nowadays though [07:34]
yawkat templating languages have their place but for a truly interactive web application id always stick to js [07:34]
Albright My car is pretty cool but I don't need to drive it to the kitchen. [07:34]
ADG1089 hey guys, i wanted a service to listen for heatbeats and update in database, i figured dropizard or spring might be overkill for this, does anyone have other ideas? [07:35]
dreamreal yawkat ++ [07:35]
dreamreal yawkat has a karma level of 353, dreamreal [07:35]
dreamreal ADG1089: heartbeats from what source [07:35]
dreamreal and "overkill" in what sense [07:35]
ADG1089 dreamreal: users, to track which of them are online, i am building a p2p video chat as a requirement [07:36]
ADG1089 users' devices - ios, android, etc. [07:36]
dreamreal so what transport is the heartbeat [07:36]
yawkat p2p video chat, going for the simplest projects first i see [07:37]
dreamreal anyway, for a HEARTBEAT it really doesn't matter; I'd ... actually probably use nodejs for it, but migrate to java as soon as you added actual features, unless those are provided elsewhere (and for chat, they will be) [07:38]
ADG1089 yawkat: there's a lot of assumption in your statement; i work a job [07:38]
ADG1089 dreamreal: i guess tcp, the integrating service provides client interface in java & c++ [07:39]
dreamreal just set up an express route and listen, when something comes in, update the db, set an interval and remove users who haven't sent the heartbeat in time... or use a cache with expired entities [07:39]
dreamreal doesn't really matter, just get it done [07:39]
dreamreal probably have it done by now if you'd just ... you know, done it [07:40]
ADG1089 dreamreal: thanks [07:40]
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mbooth Who was looking for a URL shortener the other day? https://verylegit.link/ [08:30]
dreamreal dka, I think [08:31]
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db looks very legit. [09:38]
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Maldivia sure does ... for instance Java 15 can be downloaded from http://paypal.verylegit.link/-notice$144windows-update!!pccleaner+free-iphone.jar.pdf :D [10:13]
dreamreal snrks [10:15]
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boop heh [10:27]
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cheeser Maldivia: my AV complains about that link... [10:47]
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dka ? [10:48]
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ron AV lol [10:50]
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mbooth cheeser: Why though, it's clearly very legit. [11:09]
cheeser i turned off the AV. who needs it when I can clearly trust the link i found on the internet? [11:09]
ron duh. [11:14]
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lorenx pastebin [11:53]
lorenx Please paste your code and any errors online. For runnable classes, try https://ideone.com/ . For general code and errors, use https://gist.github.com or https://dpaste.org/ [11:53]
kristijonas https://dpaste.org/OkrV how do I run this thing? [11:55]
dmlloyd wdyt: public interface ?Node { ... } [11:55]
dmlloyd should be fine right???? [11:55]
dmlloyd final ?Node ? = new ?NodeImpl() [11:56]
yawkat why Node [11:56]
yawkat just use only ? [11:56]
dmlloyd even better! [11:56]
yawkat also TIL that javap.yawk.at doesn't like unicode. [11:57]
dmlloyd final ? ? = factory.?() [11:58]
dmlloyd did you know that the lambda eg seriously considered introducing a ? keyword? [11:58]
dmlloyd until it was pointed out that today, ? is a valid identifier, and Greek users might take exception! [11:59]
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yawkat would have been very in style with hipster languages https://silq.ethz.ch/overview [12:01]
yawkat yawkat's title: "Silq - Overview of Key Concepts" [12:01]
sbalmos dmlloyd: Uh, I prefer ASCII, thank you. if I wanted that, I'd code in ADA or ALGOL [12:02]
lorenx hi, about logback. shouldn't this be enough to have `my.package` logging DEBUG and everyone else logging ERRORs only? https://dpaste.org/ngos/slim [12:02]
dmlloyd lorenx: I've never configured logback, but I suspect you've got two problems there, if it's anything like other log frameworks [12:03]
lorenx great lol, like? [12:04]
dmlloyd problem #1, your my.package category is probably configured to log twice (in sane loggers, subloggers normally inherit the appender configuration from the parent) [12:04]
yawkat ohh i can blame undertow https://java-browser.yawk.at/io.undertow/undertow-core/2.0.9.Final/io/undertow/io/BlockingReceiverImpl.java#74 [12:04]
yawkat yawkat's title: "io.undertow/undertow-core/2.0.9.Final : io/undertow/io/BlockingReceiverImpl.java" [12:04]
dmlloyd problem #2, your appender probably also needs to be configured with a threshold of DEBUG [12:04]
dmlloyd otherwise it'll get filtered out in the end anyway [12:04]
lorenx dmlloyd, this fixes the first i guess: https://dpaste.org/AK1A/slim [12:05]
dmlloyd should, yeah [12:05]
lorenx dmlloyd, what about this? https://dpaste.org/ZkrW/slim [12:07]
dmlloyd hmmm, maybe [12:07]
lorenx gonna try, thank you [12:07]
dmlloyd now my lack of logback knowledge is probably the limiting factor [12:07]
dmlloyd the docs *should* tell you if it departs majorly from log4j or JUL in any significant way [12:08]
lorenx well, cannot log DEBUG for my.package yet [12:08]
dmlloyd maybe "filter" is the wrong way to set the level threshold [12:09]
lorenx it seems trickier than what i thought lol [12:09]
dmlloyd in log4j and JUL, the level is a base property of the appender [12:09]
lorenx i also tried this with no success: https://dpaste.org/xJVA/slim [12:13]
lorenx i guess the appender shouldn't be filtered though, it should serve both loggers... [12:18]
dmlloyd it seems like logback appenders don't filter by level normally [12:19]
dmlloyd so maybe you don't need that part [12:19]
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lorenx yeah, the issue should be somewhere else [12:19]
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dmlloyd you'll want additivity to be true [12:22]
dmlloyd to flow it to the root [12:22]
dmlloyd I dunno, logback is a mystery to me! [12:22]
lorenx yeah, i went back to this: https://dpaste.org/5r2R/slim [12:24]
lorenx it should be kinda simple actually... yet it's not lol [12:25]
dmlloyd yeah no idea [12:25]
dmlloyd I guess logback just sucks! [12:25]
lorenx it's ok, thank you for your support thought [12:26]
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SirMangler what's a good way to stay up to date with Java and learn more about it in detail? [02:24]
SirMangler I've heard the JVM and GC have became slower, I'd like to learn more about the JVM and build on my knowledge beyond just coding in it [02:24]
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dreamreal haha [02:26]
dreamreal you've heard that, have you? [02:26]
dreamreal From where? Step one would be to stop using those sources, because they're exactly wrong [02:26]
SirMangler From a person and I never said I believed them [02:26]
dreamreal then why repeat it [02:26]
SirMangler Because I would like to find out just how true that is for myself [02:27]
SirMangler Which is why I am asking about a good way to learn about it properly [02:27]
SirMangler rather than word of mouth, rather than some article written by some random person claiming to be a guru [02:28]
dreamreal I dunno, good question, don't know how I'd answer it myself, honestly [02:28]
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tang^ JetBrains has a current article comparing GCs [02:28]
SirMangler Is JetBrains a decent source? [02:29]
tang^ they're opinionated [02:29]
dreamreal They know java pretty well and their entire product line relies on it as a core tech [02:29]
tang^ but yeah, that ^ [02:29]
cheeser everyone's opinionated. [02:29]
tang^ https://blog.jetbrains.com/idea/2020/09/jetbrains-technology-day-for-java-openjdk-in-the-new-age-of-concurrent-garbage-collectors/ [02:30]
SirMangler that is true, but some people are more extreme than others, and some are blatantly misinformed [02:30]
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tang^ and the main presenter for that article is from Microsoft [02:31]
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ricky_clarkson SirMangler: Generally things are getting faster. There's not been a performance reason to stay on an earlier release of Java ever, to my knowledge. [02:45]
dreamreal well, if you WANTED it to be slower... [02:46]
ricky_clarkson I want it to be slow so I can advocate a GCless language! [02:46]
dreamreal and some GCs perform in different ways, but *in general* everything's been positive for the general case [02:46]
SirMangler I assumed so. Where do you find out about the progress of Java? [02:46]
dreamreal SirMangler: tons and tons of sources, I don't know of a good single-source, unless it's Adam Bien or Heinz Kabutz [02:47]
SirMangler yeah, even if oracle themselves were publishing, its unlikely they would start pointing out how their new versions suck [02:47]
SirMangler so a variety is good [02:47]
cheeser stephen colebourne [02:48]
dreamreal Oracle no longer controls that stuff anyway :) [02:48]
SirMangler Thanks for the names! [02:48]
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Maldivia foojay.io is also a place, also opinionated (sponsored by Azul) [04:39]
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headcr4sh who [05:08]
headcr4sh oops. ignore that. ;) [05:08]
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ricky_clarkson SirMangler: Probably not as low level as you're looking for, and it could be showing its age by now, but I'd guess this would be interesting to you: [05:09]
ricky_clarkson jcip [05:09]
ricky_clarkson SirMangler, jcip is Java Concurrency In Practice, a book focused on implementing threaded and concurrent applications in Java. You can read more at http://jcip.net and buy a copy at http://amzn.to/1pujbTy [05:09]
ricky_clarkson discusses the memory model, probably as low level as you need to get in normal Java programming. [05:10]
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muhaha guys? how can I add string ( + '/mycontext' ) to MYURL env var ? i am using System.getenv().getOrDefault("MY_URL", '' ); thanks [05:31]
ricky_clarkson muhaha: Are you expecting getOrDefault to change an env var? [05:37]
muhaha I just want to add string '/mycontext' to MY_URL env var ( it will default to some url ) [05:38]
muhaha ricky_clarkson ^ [05:45]
ricky_clarkson And I just want you to answer my question, but I guess we're both out of luck. [05:46]
ricky_clarkson Maybe you're looking for a way of setting an env variable, or you're looking for string concatenation, but your question isn't clear. [05:47]
muhaha I am looking for a onliner -> get env variable MY_URL, add '/context' string to that variable , or if is not set, then fallback to some default... [05:48]
muhaha ricky_clarkson ^ [05:52]
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xuxx_ hi, how should I compare 2 double with an epsilon ? [06:12]
xuxx_ I saw assertEquals but is it right ? [06:13]
Maldivia in a unit test? [06:13]
xuxx_ no [06:13]
Maldivia then assertEquals is not correct to use [06:13]
xuxx_ so what's the best way to do it ? [06:14]
xuxx_ should i just do a substraction and check if it's lower than the epsilon ? [06:14]
xuxx_ if i do x - y with double i'm afraid of losing precision. [06:15]
Maldivia Math.abs(a - b) < epsilon [06:16]
xuxx_ we lose precision with the a - b no ? [06:16]
Maldivia potentially, but that is what the epsilon is for [06:17]
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xuxx_ I would like to compare 2 array to know if they contain same values. [06:50]
xuxx_ I have the idea of double for that do a lot of iterations. [06:50]
xuxx_ Is there another way to resolver it ? With less complexity [06:50]
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ricky_clarkson xuxx_: Does order matter? e.g., is new int[]{1, 2, 3} the same as new int[]{3, 2, 1} for you? [07:01]
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ADG1089 is there something like "black" (python formatter) for java, [07:03]
ADG1089 k&r, allmans, google, etc.? [07:03]
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ricky_clarkson lmgtfy java formatter [07:33]
ricky_clarkson http://lmgtfy.com/?q=java+formatter [07:33]
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Hoffman google very opinionated java formatter [07:49]
Hoffman https://google.com/search?q=very+opinionated+java+formatter [07:49]
Hoffman https://prettier.io/ [07:49]
Hoffman Hoffman's title: "Prettier Opinionated Code Formatter" [07:49]
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ricky_clarkson Does it tell you your code's shit? [08:01]
tang^ ooo, I could use that [08:01]
tang^ oh wait I know my code is shit [08:01]
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puff pastebin [08:53]
puff Please paste your code and any errors online. For runnable classes, try https://ideone.com/ . For general code and errors, use https://gist.github.com or https://dpaste.org/ [08:53]
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oft_gegong So I wonder about "perl: more than one way to do it" because java swing should be: WAY more than one way to do it. [09:05]
oft_gegong With java swing there's like 7-100 ways of doing it. [09:07]
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dreamreal oft_gegong: okay? [09:25]
oft_gegong dreamreal, well am I right? [09:26]
cheeser "no." [09:26]
dreamreal I mean, programming isn't like coloring by numbers [09:27]
dreamreal And Java *in general* tends to encourage certain fairly effective approaches [09:27]
dreamreal but "7-100 ways" ... I mean... I guess, but so what? [09:27]
dreamreal It's nothing like perl, if that's the equivalence you're trying to make [09:27]
dreamreal or python, or javascript, by any measure [09:28]
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oft_gegong the fact that there are so many differing solutions to common problems suggest that java is an 800% of a complex/complicated language. [09:41]
oft_gegong sure you can argue with people: "Oh it's not so bad." It is so bad. [09:41]
cheeser it's also possible that different solutions have differents pros and cons and that perhaps the naive perspective is "that's overcomplicated!" [09:44]
cheeser \_(?)_/ [09:44]
oft_gegong or maybe the solution itself is stupid [09:45]
oft_gegong (? ??) [09:45]
oft_gegong maybe we should go with counting stones on some concrete instead of turning on a screen to keep track of everything. [09:46]
cheeser yes. you should definitely go do that. [09:47]
oft_gegong I'll call it theRockDatabase [09:48]
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db next [10:21]
db Another satisfied customer. Next! [10:21]
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