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« 2021-04-08

2021-04-09

2021-04-10 »

Nick Message Date
zulutango [zulutango!~zulutango@d58-105-160-58.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined ##java [12:10]
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pi0 [pi0!zeropi@gateway/shell/xshellz/x-alyetzgsafyldkvk] has joined ##java [03:06]
pi0 is jframe still being used [03:07]
pi0 looking at coding samples from my book [03:07]
_lucifer yes, swing is still widely used. that said, javafx might be more popular. [03:08]
BuzzwordChief [BuzzwordChief!~mbp@dslb-090-186-016-075.090.186.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##java [03:17]
[twisti] not generally for new projects though [03:22]
[twisti] (swing, that is) [03:22]
sdu [sdu!~doo@185.44.146.177] has joined ##java [03:23]
_lucifer jetbrains projector is interesting. the description says it can run "JetBrains IDEs and Swing apps". so it might be possible to write a swing app to run in the browser. and even better they don't need js to do any of that stuff just html canvas api. [03:27]
acidjnk_new [acidjnk_new!~acidjnk@p200300d0c72b9564e895d5f110e04519.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined ##java [03:31]
db I seem to remember something like that (not vaadin) [03:31]
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mrkubax10 parted the channel: [03:45]
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julsorio greetings [07:23]
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solvr I just had an epiphany. In the brain, the autonomic nervous system controls all basic functions, it's functionally identical to the OS layer, it's simple, it's precompiled (doesn't adapt aside from few params). Everything else is interpreted by the limbic system and cerebral cortex and commonly repeated behaviors are JIT compiled to the basal [07:49]
solvr ganglia (like driving a car). [07:49]
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solvr So AOT with overlayed interpeter + JIT is fundamental to systems. [07:50]
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mbooth Yep, those are definitely words [07:50]
solvr You're right. [07:50]
Maldivia sounds like a prize winning article in the making... so go write it [07:51]
solvr I wrote it [07:51]
Diablo-D3 so did several other people in the 70s [07:51]
solvr Now it's your duty to spread it. [07:51]
solvr Diablo-D3 orly, I'd be curious to read similar thesis. If you have pointers. [07:52]
Maldivia well, find another venue for that; this is a no-spread-zone [07:52]
solvr Hmm why don't we call anti-virus products 'vaccine software' [07:52]
solvr Anyway. [07:52]
solvr Anyway that's good news, it means interpreter + JIT is not a mistake. [07:53]
Maldivia interesting [07:53]
Maldivia this is all very interesting (not really) but please take it somewhere else. [07:53]
solvr But also means AOT is never going away [07:53]
solvr Anyway nice talk: [07:56]
solvr https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vizTDSz8NU [07:56]
solvr solvr's title: "A JVM Does That??? by Dr Cliff Click" [07:56]
mbooth solvr: Oh phew, I'm glad you approve of the interpreter and JIT. [07:56]
mbooth Hey everyone we were on the track after all! [07:56]
solvr mbooth, big relief. [07:56]
solvr mbooth, imagine the mass hysteria otherwise [07:57]
dreamreal mbooth: but they don't :) [07:59]
dmlloyd anyone else ever hit this one? https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-266414 [07:59]
dreamreal not me [08:00]
mbooth Swing? and a miss [08:01]
solvr Consider what GC means for society. If no one cares about you, you effectively don't exist. [08:01]
solvr But more interestingly, if a group of people care for each other and society doesn't know about them, they also don't exist. [08:02]
solvr Is there a list of "roots" the JVM scans from. [08:03]
solvr I wonder if it includes events like timers. [08:03]
solvr It has to right. [08:03]
dreamreal solvr: why [08:04]
dreamreal have you noticed an actual issue [08:04]
solvr yes [08:04]
solvr BTW this is similar to how neuron paths strengthen. They get stimulated from roots. Circular references and other detached structures don't receive stimulation, so over time they get weak, and get repurposed in other networks (the neurons that is) [08:06]
dreamreal What issue have you noticed? [08:06]
dreamreal And GC isn't like a synapse. I get the analogy but the analogy fails really quickly. [08:06]
_lucifer that doesn't tell a zilch about your issue [08:06]
dreamreal So what issue have you noticed? [08:06]
solvr dreamreal, it doesn't fail, it's how it works. I [08:07]
dreamreal So have you noticed an issue? You said yes. What issue? [08:07]
solvr Imagine a language that actually works like a brain. Instead of flagging objects as "used" or "not used", you'd bump their score every time they're used. You bump their score even more if they're used while you're emotional (means an important moment). When you need memory, you just start dumping the lowest scored neurons. [08:09]
solvr It effectively means infinite memory [08:09]
dreamreal no. [08:09]
dreamreal Tell me your fucking issue with GC. [08:09]
solvr But also a bit non-deterministic behavior, which is fine. [08:09]
dreamreal I'll do the imagining thing later. [08:09]
dreamreal Tell me your issue. [08:09]
solvr How do we encode emotion in the JVM. [08:09]
solvr I.e. important object use vs non-important. [08:10]
solvr Obviously it's just a heuristic, not perfect. [08:10]
dreamreal The JVM is irrelevant there; you want an AI channel, and you really want to avoid the whole subject until you understand psychology and biology a lot better. So what's the issue with the JVM? [08:10]
dreamreal So far you've failed to enumerate an issue with the JVM. [08:10]
dreamreal You said there was an issue. Describe what it is. [08:10]
dreamreal specifically, BTW, you want to look up GANs and CNNs and evolutionary biology. But that's not topical for THIS CHANNEL. [08:11]
dreamreal maybe RNNs too, come to think of it. Still offtopic. [08:11]
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dreamreal sets the timer for solvr to shit or get off the pot. What's the issue you noticed? [08:12]
dreamreal ... if we hit 8:15 my time and you've not managed to describe AN ISSUE or backed off the declaration that you FOUND an issue, I'm kickbanning you [08:13]
solvr dreamreal, can't people just get high and correlate JVM to brains from time to time [08:13]
mbooth Sure, just not here [08:13]
dmlloyd not here or now thanks [08:13]
mbooth Start a blog [08:13]
dreamreal solvr: sure. But they can't start yapping about AN ISSUE with the JVM at the same time. [08:13]
dreamreal ^^^^ this [08:13]
solvr dreamreal, I didn't start with "I have an issue with JVM" I was kind of cornered and said "yes" [08:14]
solvr fml/ [08:14]
dreamreal I asked you if you had found an issue; "no" would have been fine, but you chose "yes" [08:14]
solvr Yes I did. That was the wrong answer. [08:14]
mbooth Or tell it to twitter, which I'm pretty sure is a write-only medium [08:14]
dreamreal here, let me help you: "you know, when I said yes, I was wrong, I didn't find an issue, was just musing" [08:14]
dreamreal copy and paste that [08:14]
solvr you know, when I said yes, I was wrong, I didn't find an issue, was just musing [08:15]
dreamreal ... 10 seconds [08:15]
dreamreal whew [08:15]
dreamreal that was easy [08:15]
solvr my neurons are like "this was intense, let's remember it for next time" [08:15]
dreamreal except if you know how neurons work you know that's not ... how that works at all [08:16]
dreamreal hands solvr a perceptron, too, while he's at it. [08:16]
mitch0 sometimes I miss old #unix on ircnet :) [08:16]
solvr dreamreal, it's a good high-level view of it [08:16]
solvr dreamreal, neurotransmitters are correlated to emotional state [08:16]
dreamreal Yes, when I look at a tire I think "that's a hell of a car" [08:16]
solvr And neurons are effected by neurotransmitters, including those released in the cerebrospinal fluid at large not just neuron to neuron connections [08:17]
dmlloyd how about this, you guys ever get this one? https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-266421 [08:18]
dmlloyd you need to recognize that shiz [08:19]
dmlloyd dmlloyd, what does that even *mean*? [08:19]
mbooth It's like jetbrains hates their users :-p [08:20]
dreamreal hmm, I wonder why javabot didn't echo that [08:20]
yawkat "The workaround is to do the migration, and then "Run inspection on..." whole project with "Wrong package statement" inspection, and click click click click click..." [08:21]
mbooth also hates its users [08:21]
mbooth mbooth, what does that even *mean*? [08:21]
yawkat cant you just, like, mv the directory? [08:21]
mitch0 ) [08:21]
dmlloyd is still clicking [08:31]
dmlloyd my wrist is actually starting to hurt :| [08:31]
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solvr dmlloyd, is this a problem in JVM, if not dreamreal wants to kickban you [08:49]
solvr ) [08:49]
dmlloyd \_(?)_/ [08:50]
solvr \_(?)_/ [08:50]
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dmlloyd pro tip: if you're doing a major package relocation and you're using git, if you do the package name migration in one commit and then move the source files in another, the move is done 100% as renames [09:03]
dmlloyd downside is you likely have one broken commit [09:03]
mitch0 git mv? [09:07]
dmlloyd if you're doing it from the IDE [09:08]
dmlloyd git doesn't actually track renames [09:08]
dmlloyd it "detects" them when it notices that a file that was removed is similar (to a threshold) to a file that was added [09:08]
dmlloyd that's why it sometimes gets it wrong [09:08]
dmlloyd but if you do the move in a separate commit, all the moved files are 100% identical so it can do a perfect track of it [09:09]
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cheeser squash commits fix the broken commit? [09:12]
dmlloyd no, if you squash them then it loses track of the history again [09:12]
dmlloyd there is no persistent state of any kind to track renames [09:12]
cheeser nods. [09:13]
cheeser that's what I figured. [09:13]
sbalmos Linus made a mistake in the design of Git??? [09:17]
cheeser a decision. ;) [09:18]
mitch0 ) [09:18]
dmlloyd this way is more reliable; one less piece of state to mangle [09:19]
dmlloyd people are confused by git as it is :) [09:19]
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mitch0 100s of cow-orkers replying with reply-to-all to a distribution-list message asking to be removed/unsibsribed. sad... [09:25]
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dreamreal Well, I'm sure you ARE interested in who's unsubcribing as well as who's too stupid to figure out which way a door opens... [09:31]
Teckla mitch0: That happens a few times per year where I work. [09:31]
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mitch0 eh... [09:34]
dreamreal "Oh, hi, Sam! ... hold on just a sec, checking something. Sorry! HI.... SAM... HOW.... ARE.... YOUUUUUU" [09:35]
dreamreal "I'm great, mitch0. Why are you talking so slowly?" "Don't... want... to ... use... big... words... and ... make ... you... not ... get ... me ... when... I... talk" [09:36]
cheeser dmlloyd: unsubsquirrel! [09:36]
dmlloyd we haven't actually had one of those "events" in a while [09:37]
cheeser i should get that shirt. :) [09:40]
sbalmos I am interested in these viewpoints, and wish to subscribe to your newsletters! [09:41]
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FabioP hi, could i get some help with this test https://pastebin.com/JWuQK5gy [09:51]
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dmlloyd maybe you want getResponse() instead of getRequest() [09:52]
FabioP oooh [09:52]
dmlloyd I'm no spring expert but... [09:52]
FabioP of course.. thank you very much [09:53]
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sbalmos is it just me, or is the latest IDEA red-lining a lot more in POMs? Like it's now red-lining a POM that uses the spring-boot-maven-plugin, supposedly not found, ostensibly because the version isn't defined. But the version is defined in the Spring Boot parent POM. [10:24]
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dmlloyd I did notice that Java code snippets in markdown and asciidoc are now syntactically invalid unless the content is a completely valid source file [11:12]
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dmlloyd i.e. you need package, class, etc. [11:13]
sbalmos lovely [11:16]
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chewb i have architecture question, i need to implement some functionality and i am not sure about data model [01:50]
chewb functionality is: during creating new User, admin must be able to choose from which companies user will be allowed to lets say: buy for example [01:51]
chewb I mean now User can go to Product of any Company and click buy. I need to make functionality so if User is not allowed to buy Product from certain Company it will be disabled [01:52]
dreamreal why not List<Company> providers; [01:52]
dreamreal if the product isn't associated with one of those providers, don't list it [01:52]
chewb dreamreal its by User. what i came with is table CompanyBuyRight (id, company_id, user_id) [01:53]
dreamreal so you're doing the DB manually? [01:53]
chewb creating User with x companies choosed will create x records to database [01:53]
dreamreal sure, that's how it would model in any event [01:54]
dreamreal so where's the question [01:54]
chewb for example if i create User X with right to buy from companies a,b,c: it will create 3 records in CompanyBuyRight: (1, 1, 1), (1,1,2), (1,1,3) for companies with id:1,2,3 [01:54]
chewb I am not sure if its good idea, because it will insert lot of rows for each user, probably lot of redundancy [01:55]
dreamreal right. rocket science level = 0 so far. [01:55]
dreamreal so? [01:55]
dreamreal How many users are there? How many companies? [01:55]
dreamreal how many of those companies can an average user expect to have access to? [01:56]
chewb 50 companies, i dont know, probably more than half [01:57]
chewb you know: user go to product and button is disabled, based on if list of "select from right where user_id=x and product.company.id=y" is not empty [01:58]
dreamreal and how many users [01:58]
chewb less, maybe 20, i dont know [01:59]
chewb so in your opinion its not stupid idea per se, but it depends on numver of users and companies? [01:59]
dreamreal well... ifyou assume the ABSOLUTE WORST CASE then you have 1000 records, which is nothing [01:59]
dreamreal I'm still trying to figure out why you care; get it working, then fix it if it's too expensive. [01:59]
dreamreal if your DB is like "OMG 1K records ARRRRGH" you need to get a new db [02:00]
dreamreal in fact if your db is going "argh 50K records"... get a new db [02:01]
dreamreal realistically, "argh 10M records" ... get a new db [02:01]
dreamreal try postgres, it's free [02:01]
chewb with 5k records there was problem when i used join with 2 tables to get boolean result, too slow [02:02]
dreamreal then you don't know how to set up indexes or, well, new DB [02:03]
dreamreal although "join to get a boolean result" sounds weird [02:03]
chewb i was askign question about it here before, subquery from U->x->z and U->y->z, bascially selected all elements U that has x that has z of certain id [02:06]
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chewb 2 leftjoins, if it selected something it returned true [02:06]
dreamreal which db? what did explain plan show you? [02:07]
yottabyte what's the best practice to write a String to a file? I'm thinking either a BufferedWriter or FileOutputStream, but I'm not sure [02:09]
dreamreal Writer for string data. [02:09]
ernimril Files.write is pretty nice [02:10]
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ernimril or Files.writeString [02:11]
ernimril pick one depending on your exact data [02:11]
dreamreal nod [02:11]
yottabyte ooo Files.write is nice [02:11]
yottabyte so I should do Files.write(textFile, myString.getBytes(StandardCharsets.UTF_8)) [02:12]
ernimril yottabyte, if you have a string it might be Files.writeString(path, yourString, StandardChasets.UTF_8) [02:13]
chewb dreamreal what is explain plan? is there intelij plugin for that? [02:18]
dreamreal chewb: it's a SQL command. Your DB may or may not support it. This makes me think the problem is between your chair and keyboard. [02:19]
chewb probllems wont show at developer db anyway, i would have to clone ton of records [02:19]
dreamreal how many records? [02:19]
dreamreal What DB are you using? [02:19]
dreamreal wait, I already asked that [02:20]
dreamreal never mind [02:20]
dreamreal if you don't want help, I get it [02:20]
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hsn does IDEA ide use java widgets for gui or some native widgets? Its pretty fast on my slow notebook [02:34]
dmlloyd java widgets, but swing is backed by native stuff [02:37]
dmlloyd and intellij have had a lot of years to work out the kinks [02:37]
chewb what do you mean by kinks? [02:38]
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hsn isnt swing about to be replaced by javafx? [02:44]
dreamreal no [02:44]
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yottabyte ernimril: true, it uses Files.write internally it seems [02:51]
Diablo-D3 swing will never die, no matter how many times we shoot that zombie [02:53]
Diablo-D3 at this rate, winui getting an officially supported java api would be an improvement [02:54]
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devslash I am working on a JSP script. Does it support creating functions ? [04:27]
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ernimril devslash, jsp is a mix of plain java and html, so in the java-parts you can have methods, yes [04:28]
ernimril jsp [04:28]
ernimril JSP is short for "Java Server Pages", a technology for writing templates for the web which allows you to also put java code directly into the template. You're unlikely to get help for it, because it gets far more complicated than it could be in zero time; consider it obsolete technology. Look up ~template for better alternatives. More on JSP: https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javaee/jsp/index.html [04:28]
dreamreal devslash: the JSP spec tells you how to do this, too [04:28]
devslash ok thanks [04:30]
devslash im running into an issue with a method that needs a callback function [04:30]
devslash i dunno [04:34]
devslash even a basic empty function is throwing a fatal error in JSP [04:34]
dreamreal show us [04:34]
dreamreal Paste the code (and any errors) in a pastebin where we can see it. See ~pastebin for options. Also see ~testcase for good examples as to how to help us help you quickly diagnose and solve problems. [04:34]
devslash final DBData(int a) { } [04:34]
dreamreal That's not an actual java function [04:34]
devslash then how do you write it [04:35]
dreamreal final void DBData(int a) {} // note return type, which is a thing in java [04:35]
devslash ive tried writing it many different ways [04:35]
devslash void is an invalid type for the variable DBData [04:35]
dreamreal sighs [04:36]
dreamreal devslash: the type isn't relevant. The *presence* is. [04:36]
ernimril devslash, depends on what you want, if you follow standard style you use lowercase for initial letter for methods, and uppercase for classes, so that looks like a constructor or something that returns a DBData type... [04:36]
devslash how [04:36]
devslash i dont know what you mean [04:36]
dreamreal a method in java has a return type, a name, and a sequence of arguments: int foo() // return type is int, name is foo, arg list is empty [04:36]
dreamreal String bar(Baz bletch) // return type is string, name is bar, arg list is one entry of type bar, named bletch for the method [04:37]
devslash but why doesnt it accpt void [04:37]
dreamreal have you considered doing the java tutorial? [04:37]
devslash i dont need to [04:37]
dreamreal devslash: I don't know, you'd have to show us the error [04:37]
dreamreal dude, if you don't know how to declare methods in java, you do [04:37]
devslash ive written in Java and Kotlin but its not exactly the same for JSP apparently [04:37]
dreamreal JSP is definitely valid java [04:37]
ernimril devslash, if you have problem consider putting your full jsp in a pastebin and add the full error [04:38]
dreamreal <%! String getString() { return "hello world"; } %> is how you'd declare "getString()" in the scope ofteh JSP [04:38]
ernimril devslash, jsp uses special separators so you have to be careful where you put the java and where you put the html [04:38]
devslash that throws an error [04:39]
devslash Syntax error on token "String", new expected [04:39]
dreamreal show us [04:39]
dreamreal Paste the code (and any errors) in a pastebin where we can see it. See ~pastebin for options. Also see ~testcase for good examples as to how to help us help you quickly diagnose and solve problems. [04:39]
devslash String getString() { return "hello world"; } [04:39]
devslash thats the only [04:39]
devslash jsp code [04:40]
dreamreal You need to provide the rest of the JSP, the surrounding context is IMPORTANT, as ernimril pointed out [04:40]
devslash <%! String getString() { return "hello world"; } %> [04:40]
dreamreal That's your whole JSP? [04:41]
devslash yes [04:42]
dreamreal okay fine [04:42]
devslash ok I found the issue [04:42]
devslash you need to have <%! instead of <% [04:42]
dreamreal you... pasted <%! [04:43]
dreamreal did you not paste what you actually wrote? [04:43]
_lucifer template [04:44]
_lucifer Popular templating engines include ~thymeleaf, ~freemarker, ~velocity, ~stringtemplate, ~pebble, ~rocker, and ~handlebars . ~jtwig exists but looks like it's unmaintained. [04:44]
dreamreal I just downloaded tomcat, started it, created foo.jsp, and put a line in it: <%! String getContent() { return "hello, world!"; } %> <%= getContent() %> [04:45]
dreamreal it outputs.... "hello, world!" as expected [04:45]
_lucifer which one of these should i use is i start a new project today? [04:45]
dreamreal Note how elegantly I copy/pasted the JSP [04:45]
dreamreal now I'm gonna shutdown tomcat because ew gross [04:46]
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ernimril _lucifer, I think most of them are mostly abandoned, most web pages send up json and format on the client side. Why do you want to render text? [04:47]
_lucifer ernimril, i have an old project written in python/jinja2 (a templating framework). i was thinking to rewrite in java and work further on it. so i am basically looking for a jinja2 equivalent in java. [04:50]
ernimril _lucifer, ok, sorry, but I have no idea how jinja2 works so I will not suggest some alternative to it [04:50]
dreamreal thymeleaf seems "present" still? Last I looked it was, at least [04:55]
freeone3000 handlebars seems closest? [04:59]
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