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« 2015-04-20

2015-04-21

2015-04-22 »

Nick Message Date
scoopex [256bit.org] has joined #apache-activemq [12:06]
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tar80 Hi, where can I find what changed between Apollo 1.7 and 1.7.1? The Release Notes link https://activemq.apache.org/apollo/blog/releases/release-1.7.1.html is broken and in https://activemq.apache.org/apollo/blog/releases/ there are no notes for 1.7.1 [01:16]
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icbts [CPE68b6fc43ed03-CM68b6fc43ed00.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #apache-activemq [05:37]
icbts Good morning [05:49]
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chirino_m well this channel is starting to fill out nicely :) [08:46]
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icbts huzzah [08:47]
icbts Nice to see rooms fill up [08:47]
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jwcarman another day of wasted time on mailing lists [09:59]
icbts jwcarman: i believe the phrase is courage ? [10:00]
janstey jwcarman, icbts: i hope someday we'll have threads that are short and to the point :-) [10:02]
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jwcarman janstey: +1 [10:04]
icbts janstey: I hope some day that we?ll go back to code & coffee sessions ;) [10:06]
icbts s/coffee/beer works too [10:06]
janstey icbts: yeah, or coffee and write sessions :-) [10:06]
icbts s/code/burgers as well [10:06]
janstey icbts: yes, beer is also acceptable ;-) [10:06]
icbts i have four more months of not writing ;) [10:07]
icbts then i have permission [10:07]
janstey icbts: been going to coffee matters almost every weekend now. its a good place to work without having kids tugging on your arm :-) [10:07]
icbts which one? [10:07]
icbts near your home [10:07]
janstey one in paradise [10:07]
janstey yeah [10:08]
icbts cool [10:08]
icbts let me know if there is a set time [10:08]
icbts Good place for me to work on my ODL/NFV stuff [10:08]
janstey no set time - whenever the schedule allows [10:08]
janstey i'll ping you next time [10:08]
jwcarman we should periodically have a hang-out. I think face-to-face, even when virtual, does help keep people from being asses [10:09]
janstey jwcarman: yeah, i was just telling jamie a few mins ago the best way to solve these issues would be over beers :-) [10:10]
jwcarman not too many beers [10:11]
jwcarman ;) [10:11]
jwcarman just the right amount [10:11]
janstey hahaha agreed [10:11]
jwcarman Kind of like playing pool drunk. You get better up to a point [10:11]
jwcarman and then, it all goes down hill [10:11]
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clebert jwcarman: would I be too unpolite if I sent this link to this list: https://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct.html [10:21]
clebert clebert's title: Code of Conduct [10:21]
clebert especially the ? Writing a short email means people can understand the conversation as efficiently as possible.? [10:22]
jgenender Morning [10:24]
clebert jgenender: Morning? [10:24]
jgenender clebert: o/ [10:24]
icbts i wonder if that?s something Bruce should send [10:25]
icbts just to have it come from the community lead [10:25]
icbts really, thats an ASF wide issue [10:26]
jgenender I think passions are just running high...its going to blow over [10:26]
clebert jgenender: the discussions are actually scaring people away? both users and contributor devs? I don?t mind the discussions.. I?m concerned about the long emails with generic points that could fire on multiple directions [10:27]
jgenender clebert: You take my big-huge PR yet? ;-) [10:27]
clebert jgenender: It?s on the plans for this week... [10:27]
jgenender ;-) [10:27]
clebert jgenender: my productivit got considerably lower yesterday.. you can understand why [10:28]
jgenender clebert: RE discussions, its sometimes par for the course at Apache... this really happens more than most care to admit [10:28]
jgenender clebert: Its also and underscore for passion and a lot of people have skin in the game [10:28]
jgenender I concur that communication should be better [10:28]
jgenender But Im convinced its due to the passion surrounding it, which is actually a good thing in the end [10:29]
jgenender clebert: So hopefully everyone will breath deep, enjoy the spring air... and we get past this small bump in the road [10:30]
jgenender Trust me... it will blow over [10:30]
jgenender clebert: I was right in the middle of the Geronimo wars back in 2005/6. This stuff is child's play compared to that ;-) [10:31]
clebert jgenender: Geronimo basically died because of that right? ;) [10:31]
jbertram heh [10:31]
jgenender clebert: No [10:31]
clebert jgenender: well.. it wasn?t good for the project I mean [10:31]
jgenender clebert: Geronimo dies because IBM took over the project and wasnt good at building diversity [10:32]
jgenender When IBM decided it was time for them to change direction... the devs stopped working on it [10:32]
jgenender Hecne... it died which was a terrible shame [10:32]
jgenender clebert: Marc Fleury and I were friends at the time. He used to tease the shit out of me about Geronimo. But he was sincerely scared that it would be a thorn for JBoss [10:33]
jgenender clebert: When IBM got Geronimo it changed all that [10:33]
jgenender It went directions that a lot of people didnt want it too. IBM spent zero time on diversity [10:33]
clebert jgenender: I guess IBM only wanted to hurt JBoss at the time [10:33]
jgenender When IBM pulled out, all dev dried up immediately [10:34]
jgenender clebert: Yes... exactly [10:34]
jgenender clebert: JBoss was killing their licensing model for Websphere [10:34]
jgenender So they needed an open source play [10:34]
clebert jgenender: Yeah.. I remember that [10:34]
jgenender clebert: So thats part of the reason passions run high at AMQ [10:34]
jgenender Nobody wants what happened at Geronimo to happen at AMQ. ALot of people really like this project a lot [10:35]
jgenender I hope that help explain why a lot of folks are concerned [10:35]
clebert jgenender: run this command in a couple of projects at apache: [10:35]
clebert git shortlog -s -n -e [10:35]
clebert jgenender: you will see that most projects don?t have that many committers.. [10:36]
jgenender That gives commit folks [10:36]
clebert start with maven for instance [10:36]
jgenender Yep [10:36]
jgenender Thats concerning [10:36]
jgenender clebert: Did you read that article I posted from InfoWorld? [10:37]
clebert jgenender: I didn?t see it.. when did you post? [10:37]
clebert reading the logs [10:37]
jgenender You really should. It talsk about the evolution of open source and adoption [10:38]
jgenender clebert: http://www.infoworld.com/article/2905331/open-source-software/the-new-struggles-facing-open-source.html#tk.rss_all [10:38]
jgenender The last sentence of that article says it all [10:39]
jgenender "Ultimately, open source isn?t about code. It?s about community, and as Bert Hubert suggests, ?community is the best predictor of the future of a project.? That community isn?t fostered by jerk project leads or corporate overlords pretending to be friendly foundations. It?s the heart of today?s biggest challenges in open source -- as it was in the last decade." [10:39]
clebert jgenender: I got a clear view that community diversity is not just committers diversity? community is a whole lot of people supporting the project? if you have a great community of users and the committers are gone for any reason? new ones will join?. [10:41]
clebert jgenender: I?m not saying I want that to happen... [10:41]
jgenender Yep ;-) [10:41]
clebert I?m all for diversity on committers [10:41]
jbertram jgenender: do you think ActiveMQ currently has good diversity? [10:41]
jgenender I think everyone wants the same thing and people are just really concerned [10:41]
clebert jgenender: so I really want all the politics on the mail list to get down? politics scare employees away? volunteers even worse [10:42]
jgenender It will [10:42]
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jgenender This storm needs ot pass over and the sun will indeed come out [10:42]
jgenender This is par for the course [10:42]
clebert jgenender: alright :)? I need to finish my change.. then merge your changes.. then merge Howard changes.. and then start renaming the packages? [10:43]
jgenender clebert: Good stuff [10:43]
clebert so.. I will ignore the list for today.. and try to get some work done [10:43]
jgenender Good idea ;-) [10:43]
clebert jgenender: I will apply that saying to myself?. ?Shut up and type? [10:43]
jgenender Heheh [10:43]
clebert jgenender: good talking to you :) [10:43]
jgenender clebert: Take mins and read that article... its very good [10:44]
clebert jgenender: I will book mark it and read it indeed [10:44]
clebert will pull it to the ipad [10:44]
chirino_m so the best parts of geronimo still live on. ;) [10:56]
chirino_m Basically OpenEJB and ActiveMQ =D [10:56]
chirino_m but I'm biased I guess [10:56]
jgenender chirino_m: Haha [10:56]
jgenender chirino_m: Its sad... a lot of blood sweat and tears went into that [10:56]
jgenender It was somewhat forward thinking at the time... a modular Java EE container [10:57]
jgenender I remember when I told IBM... this should be in OSGi [10:57]
jgenender They laughed me right out the door (literally) [10:57]
jgenender Then guess what happened... [10:57]
jgenender Day late...dollar short [10:57]
jgenender chirino_m: But I would concur... OEJB (TomEE) and AMQ... best things that spun out of it [10:58]
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clebert jgenender: do you mind rebasing your commit? [12:01]
clebert jgenender: just to be on the top of the list when we merge it? [12:01]
jgenender Sure [12:01]
jgenender Gimme a sec and I'll sync it forward [12:01]
clebert jgenender: pull ?rebase master [12:01]
clebert pull ?rebase apache/master [12:01]
clebert that kind of thing [12:01]
jgenender clebert: Since I already committed... I may need to under that comit [12:02]
jgenender Can I rebase a previous commit? [12:02]
clebert jgenender: I usualy do git pull ?rebase apache/master [12:03]
clebert jgenender: that will redo your commit [12:03]
clebert and then git push origin -f [12:03]
clebert that will rebase it for you [12:03]
jgenender ok... let me try [12:03]
clebert if you don?t know how to do it.. let me do it [12:03]
clebert jgenender: if you don?t know how to do it.. never mind [12:04]
clebert it should be an easy thing [12:04]
jgenender clebert: Yeah generally I do that before the commit or pre-emerge [12:04]
jgenender I can git fetch upstream [12:05]
jgenender merge upstream/master [12:05]
jgenender Will that work? [12:05]
clebert jgenender: nope.. not really [12:05]
clebert don?t worry.. I will do it here [12:05]
jgenender ok [12:05]
clebert jgenender: there are actually conflicts on your PR [12:07]
clebert I can?t merge it [12:07]
clebert jgenender: Hiram merged something [12:07]
jgenender I saw 1 conflict [12:07]
clebert on the docs [12:07]
jgenender The running.md [12:07]
clebert yep [12:07]
jgenender Yeah...Let me see if I can fix it...stand by [12:07]
clebert jgenender: do this for me please [12:07]
jgenender ok [12:07]
clebert git add apache (address of the github on apache) [12:07]
clebert git pull ?rebase apache master [12:08]
clebert (you will have to solve the conflicts there) [12:08]
clebert git rebase ?continue [12:08]
clebert (after you did it) [12:08]
jgenender clebert: For me itsgit pull --rebase upstream master [12:08]
clebert git push origin -f [12:08]
jgenender Same concept ;-) [12:08]
clebert jgenender: ok? I didn?t mean to preach the choir [12:08]
jgenender ;-) [12:08]
clebert was just showing what I meant just in case.. just to be clear [12:09]
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clebert it was easier speaking gii than english :P [12:09]
clebert git [12:09]
waz ~mock jgenender [12:09]
javabot points at jgenender and laughs [12:09]
jgenender ~ball waz [12:09]
javabot kicks waz in the ball. [12:09]
clebert lol [12:09]
clebert ~lol [12:09]
clebert Maybe LOL stands for "Limited Operable Literacy". [12:09]
waz ~insult clebert [12:10]
waz You're a jerk, waz. A complete kneebiter. [12:10]
waz hey! [12:10]
clebert rotfl [12:10]
jgenender clebert: Ok..try now [12:15]
clebert jgenender: you need to push -f your branch [12:15]
jgenender I did [12:16]
jgenender Let me do it again [12:16]
clebert jgenender: oh.. wait [12:16]
clebert sorry [12:16]
jgenender jeffgenender@imac:activemq-6/ (master) $ git push -f [12:16]
jgenender Everything up-to-date [12:16]
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clebert jgenender: interface keyboard-chair problem [12:16]
clebert sorry [12:16]
jgenender np [12:16]
jgenender clebert: Its a Brazian problem... the Argentine says its because y'all are like Spanish Gallegos ;-) [12:17]
jgenender ducks [12:17]
clebert jgenender: lol [12:17]
clebert jgenender: I was talking to a British guy the other day.. My manager.. and it was funny.. he said because of a couple wars.. UKs have a few issues with this and that.. etc? etc... [12:18]
jgenender "gallego [12:18]
jgenender n.m./f. Spanish person. (back slang; used in Argentina; generally insulting)" [12:18]
jgenender ;-) [12:18]
clebert jgenender: I said? brazilians don?t mind about our past wars... [12:18]
jgenender Heheh [12:18]
clebert we had wars with Paraguay? and we are good friends... [12:18]
clebert but with Argenitians? man.. soccer matches? we hate them :) [12:18]
jgenender clebert: Then you will fit in well on ActiveMQ ;-) [12:18]
jgenender clebert: Yeah, Im good freinds with Bruno Souza... tease him all the time about whose team is better ;-) [12:19]
clebert jgenender: I don?t mind actually.. it?s just funny that historically brfazilians don?t mind about past wars.. but when it comes to soccer :) [12:19]
clebert jgenender: I actually used to work with Bruno Souza [12:19]
clebert Summa Tech in Brazil [12:19]
jgenender clebert: I also tease the Brits as well about the "Hand of God" [12:19]
clebert jgenender: uep [12:19]
clebert yep [12:19]
clebert jgenender: something is not right... [12:20]
clebert you used a merge commit [12:20]
clebert when I rebase your commit it doesn?t go well [12:21]
clebert jgenender: I will fix it here [12:21]
jgenender Hrm...I did everything [12:21]
jgenender Ok... let me knwo what happened... I followed your instructions [12:21]
jgenender I just had that readme.md to fix [12:21]
clebert you used merge commit [12:21]
jgenender clebert: You want me to undo anything? [12:23]
clebert jgenender: I will fix it here.. don?t worry [12:23]
jgenender thx [12:23]
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jgenender clebert: Just got the accept email... thanks [12:29]
jgenender GLad ot help out on this [12:29]
clebert jgenender: accept email? [12:30]
jgenender "ActiveMQ6-PR-Build #242 SUCCESS [12:30]
jgenender This pull request looks good" [12:30]
clebert jgenender: ah.. yeah... [12:30]
clebert jgenender: but you had a merge commit.. that wouldn?t look good when merging [12:30]
clebert so, I squashed your committs into a single commit [12:30]
clebert and I?m pushing now [12:30]
jgenender Yeah...I dunno how that happened [12:30]
jgenender It was all rebased [12:30]
clebert jgenender: I have no idea... [12:31]
clebert you will probably need to git checkout upstream/master -B master [12:31]
clebert once I push this [12:31]
clebert before your next commit [12:31]
jgenender Yeah I figured as much [12:31]
jgenender I generally do that anyways at all times [12:31]
clebert jgenender: cool... [12:31]
clebert I?m just saying your commit ID changed on my squash.. but I?m preserving your as the author [12:31]
clebert jgenender: which is expected [12:31]
jgenender Thanks [12:32]
jgenender Sorry for the size of it [12:32]
jgenender It was a lto of refactoring [12:32]
clebert jgenender: actually no.. thank you [12:32]
clebert jgenender: merged [12:32]
jgenender thx [12:32]
clebert jgenender: we try to always have a merge commit on file [12:33]
clebert even though I rebased it [12:33]
jgenender Thats awesome [12:33]
clebert now we have two people to blame if something goes wrong with your commit [12:33]
clebert :) [12:33]
jgenender haha...Ill take the blame [12:34]
clebert jgenender: you break it? we broke it [12:34]
jgenender ;-) [12:34]
clebert jgenender: because I merged it :) [12:34]
clebert jgenender: dunno.. I like this? I have caught stupid errors before merge? and I had some of stupid errors caught before merging.. I think it?s a good model [12:35]
clebert I meant.. some of mine stupid errors [12:35]
jgenender hah! [12:35]
clebert jbertram: FileBrokerTest? the test is passing? [12:39]
jbertram clebert: no, it's failing on my branch [12:39]
jbertram clebert: due to decode issue [12:39]
clebert jgenender: I see an NPE but the test is passing [12:40]
jgenender clebert: Yeah I ran all tests [12:40]
jgenender Everything passed [12:40]
jbertram jgenender: sorry, I think he's talking to me :) [12:40]
jgenender So I assumed all is good [12:40]
jgenender Ok ;-) [12:41]
jgenender hehe [12:41]
clebert jbertram: yeah.. I was talking to Justin [12:41]
jbertram heh [12:41]
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ksobkowiak hi [01:29]
ksobkowiak what happend with the old #activemq channel @ freenode? [01:30]
jgenender Its getting phased out [01:36]
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waz it was never an official channel [01:46]
waz this one is [01:46]
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beardeddog where would I find info on the tentative release date of 5.12.0, there is a leveldb bug fix (AMQ-5082) scheduled for it [01:55]
icbts https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AMQ/fixforversion/12329258/?selectedTab=com.atlassian.jira.jira-projects-plugin:version-issues-panel [01:59]
icbts icbts' title: ActiveMQ: 5.12.0 - ASF JIRA [01:59]
icbts My guess is soon [01:59]
waz clebert: can you do the shortlog on the amq5 side with a date range? [01:59]
icbts only so many highlevel issues [01:59]
icbts artnaseef: would you have more insight to beardeddog?s question? [02:00]
artnaseef beardeddog - I will be working on 5.11.2 and 5.10.3 releases this week - as soon as I can catch up on all my own backlogs. Not sure on 5.12.0 although I am looking forward to it. [02:02]
beardeddog artnaseef - any plans to include AMQ-5082 in 5.11.2 ? [02:03]
artnaseef I put it on my list to include. With that said, I can't promise until I've had a chance to review the change, and get it into a successful build [02:04]
artnaseef There's a chance it is dependent on other 5.12.0 changes that won't be back-ported [02:05]
artnaseef if you don't hear from me at all by the end of the week, give me a shout [02:05]
beardeddog ok, thanks, appreciate it [02:06]
artnaseef if you have time and the inclination, you could take some action that could help [02:06]
artnaseef based on the comment from Jim Robinson, it sounds like it should be an easy fit into the 5.11.x branch [02:07]
artnaseef beardeddog - you're welcome [02:08]
clebert waz i have no idea how to do that [02:22]
waz let me look one sec [02:22]
waz waz = tjsnell btw [02:22]
clebert waz I have no idea *yet* how to do it [02:22]
clebert I used: git shortlog -s -n [02:23]
clebert waz: I?m googling.. sec [02:25]
waz I did faster :P [02:25]
waz git shortlog --since="01-Dec-2011" --until="31-Dec-2011" [02:25]
waz faster or just started first [02:25]
clebert waz what date you want? [02:25]
clebert waz https://gist.github.com/clebertsuconic/527cca2b7a694cc7d655 [02:26]
waz artemis start - all hell broke loose date :) 4/1 or so [02:27]
waz you need oh-my-zsh with the git plugin! [02:27]
clebert waz: I wouldn?t stick around the committer diversity too much ?. [02:27]
clebert if committer diversity was an issue? Maven should go back to incubator for instance [02:28]
clebert waz: what is really not helping committers diversity is the politics level on the dev-list? I had once left a company with a good paying sallary because of politics [02:29]
clebert waz: people leave jobs because of politics... [02:29]
clebert volunteers then? man.... [02:29]
clebert waz: we need to fix that asap [02:29]
clebert waz: TBH I?m not getting your point at all anyways... [02:32]
clebert we were finishing the IP clearance.. which was basically renaming all the stuff.. I already said that a couple times... [02:32]
clebert waz: we are more then open for contributors ? on both codebases actually. [02:32]
waz I know [02:32]
clebert waz: I for instance learned quite a lot from dealing with 5 codebase [02:32]
waz it's weird [02:32]
clebert I intend to keep doing that [02:32]
waz there was a completely independent effort, no crossover and when someone complain David and a few others acted like we were insulting his mother [02:33]
waz my point has always been, there wasn't crossover and that needed to be the focus [02:33]
waz I never liked any other solution [02:33]
waz didn't even care about the name [02:33]
waz but up to getting ready to release it was a small tight group with no crossover and that's what worried folks [02:34]
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waz awesome work by an awesome team [02:34]
waz never thought otherwise [02:34]
clebert waz: we needed that first release out with IP cleared as apache... [02:35]
clebert (which we now have) [02:35]
clebert and hence more folks are joining... [02:35]
clebert we will get there [02:35]
waz without the release [02:35]
waz I hope so [02:35]
waz the self righteous indignation by some (absolutely hasn't been you) needs to stop though. just a community killer. [02:35]
clebert waz: I only know one way to fix this (talking about committers)? is by being collaborative.. and documenting stuff well? I?m really focused on that [02:36]
waz I know [02:36]
waz hell, you've impressed me :) [02:36]
clebert waz: apachecon was great for that? meeting people in flesh really helped a lot [02:37]
clebert waz: it took away some of my fears of posting on the dev-list and be hammered back :) [02:37]
clebert waz: (it?s actually true).. the dev-list right now is not a very welcoming place :) [02:37]
clebert waz: which we need to fix IM*H*O [02:38]
clebert In My Own Opinion I mean [02:38]
clebert jbertram: how?s going? [02:46]
jbertram clebert: going good...running the full test-suite on my branch [02:46]
jbertram clebert: how do you want to handle package renaming? [02:46]
clebert jbertram: I wanted to call it org.apache.activemq.artemis? just on the safe side [02:47]
jbertram clebert: right...how do you want to divide up the work? [02:47]
clebert jbertram: I talked to chirino and that?s what he has at apollo? I was afraid of having to rename it again in a near future... [02:48]
jbertram clebert: or should just one person do it all once all the PRs are merged? [02:48]
clebert jbertram: I think that?s kind of easier done by one person? [02:48]
jbertram clebert: I agree with org.apache.activemq.artemis [02:48]
clebert jbertram: It?s hard to sync up [02:48]
jbertram clebert: yes, I agree [02:48]
clebert jbertram: I believe martyn has the maven changes in place already [02:48]
clebert on his fork [02:49]
jbertram clebert: k [02:49]
jbertram clebert: so do you think he should do the package work too? [02:49]
clebert jbertram: Oh.. no.. that?s not what I meant? [02:49]
clebert jbertram: what I meant was .. to check with him if he did anything further [02:50]
jbertram clebert: gotcha [02:50]
clebert jbertram: did you fix that NPE? [02:54]
jbertram clebert: yeah [02:54]
clebert jbertram: cool.. thx [02:54]
jbertram clebert: simple fix [02:54]
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clebert did you guys ever do google hangouts in the past to discuss ideas? [05:54]
clebert I was wondering if that would be eventually a good idea [05:54]
jwcarman the important thing about that is to take any discussion back to the lists for further input [05:59]
jwcarman it's not unheard of, but it's not exactly the way folks like things to be done either [06:00]
clebert jwcarman: sure.. of course [06:04]
clebert jwcarman: I was just thinking if I ever need a couple of heads to discuss an idea.. if a hangout would be a good thing [06:04]
clebert jwcarman: I will try doing through the lists first.. but that will be after the release whenever it happens [06:05]
clebert jwcarman: first things first... [06:05]
jwcarman indeed [06:05]
clebert my pending PRs are almost done [06:05]
jwcarman let's try on-list first [06:06]
jwcarman because people who aren't in the same time zone can participate that way [06:06]
clebert jwcarman: fair enough [06:07]
jwcarman we're "global" so we have to try to include everyone [06:07]
joed Nah, all yuorropeans just have to move. I did. [06:08]
jwcarman joed: yeah, but we don't like you anyway :p [06:08]
icbts clebert: we tried that a few times at Karaf [06:08]
icbts didn?t work well [06:08]
icbts timezones, bandwidth [06:09]
icbts service quality [06:09]
icbts just wasn?t productive [06:09]
clebert icbts: well.. ok? I thought about just getting few heads to discuss ideas eventually... [06:09]
clebert will keep it in the list when it comes [06:09]
icbts The mailing list is the defacto standard [06:09]
jwcarman For now, I wouldn't recommend doing anything out of the ordinary, since we're trying to be more inclusive with AMQ [06:09]
clebert jwcarman: well.. right now.. as someone told me? the dev-list is a mine field :) what sucks [06:10]
icbts clebert: oh, i completely get the idea :) [06:10]
jwcarman clebert: yeah, totally agree. Hopefully we can get this thing to blow over [06:10]
icbts clebert: hangouts can be useful [06:10]
icbts so are beers at a bar [06:10]
clebert icbts: true [06:10]
icbts unfortunately that?s cost prohibative [06:11]
icbts i can?t afford to fly around the world to nerd out :) [06:12]
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