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« 2019-03-13


2019-03-15 »

Nick Message Date
redzombie [redzombie!uid103377@gateway/web/] has joined #java-talk [01:57]
KekSi 'morning [02:44]
[twisti] morning [03:22]
[twisti] apparently yesterday we had an honest to god tornado in the hamlet a few miles off my work place [03:23]
[twisti] thats super super rare in germanyland [03:23]
[twisti] [03:23]
[twisti] [twisti]'s title: "Tornado in Roetgen ! - YouTube" [03:23]
KekSi look at that moron at ~15s in.. still driving *towards* it [03:32]
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sonOfRa can't see it [04:59]
sonOfRa augh [05:52]
sonOfRa My release script doesn't work anymore, because my colleagues are lazy [05:52]
sonOfRa Instead of actually *depending on* the dependencies [05:52]
sonOfRa They have them as subprojects in gradle now, project-based includes [05:52]
sonOfRa So that it's all in one IDE window! [05:52]
sonOfRa And if you try to release now, using a subproject tasks, everything is wrong, because it still inherits the artifact id from the top level project -.- [05:53]
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sonOfRa Faux: FULL SATIRE BREXIT [06:14]
sonOfRa sonOfRa's title: "Eliezer Yudkowsky on Twitter: "So the UK has voted... - Not to stay in the EU - Not to accept the only available deal for leaving the EU - Not to leave the EU without a deal ...and at this point they should do the courageous thing and explicitly repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle."" [06:14]
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surial I find it interesting that all involved parties are half-crazy, and half-sane. [07:03]
surial May is fucking nuts as to how she's going about various bits, including crowing on and on about how the populace wants to just 'get on with it', but then those pointing out how nuts this is in a perfectly sane fashion... then become rabid drooling idiots when they do things like 'lets just vote to NOT hard brexit', whereas may correctly points out, there are only 2 ways to actually do that: [A] make a deal, or [B] repeal [07:04]
surial A50. The option [C] lets just decree no hard brexit is about as sane as [D] lets decree that the speed of light is NOT 3km/s. [07:04]
surial 300,00km/s.. you get the point. [07:04]
surial Fortunately the EU at least put out a very clear statement that there is either a deal, or the absence of a deal, which is no deal. There can't be a vote saying 'there is no no deal'. [07:05]
surial Now, where it gets interesting for me, a popcorn eating european (but somewhat in the same boat, the netherlands stands to lose quite a bit with hard brexit economically, and I have lived in the UK for 2 years, and have some friends, both UK and dutch/australian/italian mixed citizenship who live there long-term): [07:06]
surial GIven that apparently the house has now stated unequivocally that 'no deal must not happen', does that mean that if there is neither a deal nor a delay at 1 minute before midnight, march 29th, is the UK then effectively forced to do the ONLY thing that is within their power to do, alone, without any agreement by the EU#27 or the house or any other third party, to prevent hard brexit, which is to retract their A50 declaration [07:07]
surial entirely? [07:07]
surial That's kinda how I read the decisions made in HoC yesterday and the day before. [07:07]
Faux The vote on no-deal yesterday was explicitly non-binding, so unfortunately they are not forced to do that. [07:08]
Faux I still believe that they would, though, yes. [07:08]
surial Ah, it wasn't binding. Like the fucking referendum. okay. [07:08]
Faux Yup. [07:08]
surial Yeah okay that explains why nobody else is on this whole 'wait.. did they just.... effectively force themselves into either accepting May deal, or delaying, or retracting A50?' train. [07:08]
Faux Again: we're into full satire. [07:09]
Faux I am out of theories. [07:09]
surial would be fair to treat this non-binding vote as equally binding as the non-binding referendum, but, hey. Yeah, okay. Still a clusterfuck, still no actual decisions made. [07:09]
Faux Rumour I'm hearing is that they might be forced to take a 10 or 99 year extension, which can only be cancelled by revoking or by having some really high bar deal approved. [07:09]
surial Christ. What a shit show. At least your parliament and some of your newspapers and such are at least saying it. [07:09]
surial another WTF?!!?????? moment I don't understand right now: [07:09]
surial Apparently the ECJ has stated that it is not a legal move to cancel A50 and then immediately re-invoke it. [07:10]
Faux surial: The referendum is being taken as "the will of the people", you can't argue that for what the MPs voted yesterday. [07:10]
surial I have no fucking clue as to how the flying fuck you can decide that unilateral final-hour cancellation of A50 is a legal move, and yet, then immediately reinvoking it is not. [07:10]
surial Faux: I get the twisty insanity that is used to defend chasing the referendum result, I just find it funny how arbitrary it is to allow parliament to vote on the same shit 15 times in a row whereas, no, that one time when 35% of the population said 'get out', based on proven illegal campaign and an extremely obvious and universally agreed-upon notion that nobody quite knew what the fuck this meant, and 34% of the population [07:12]
surial said 'stay', whilst 31% of the population stayed home, implies 'NO! THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN!' [07:12]
sonOfRa the independent is the best! [07:12]
sonOfRa sonOfRa's title: "Theresa May planned to defeat herself, then decided not to defeat herself by defeating herself, then lost. To herself | The Independent" [07:12]
surial If I was may, I'd ordinartil just go: Okay, fuck all y'all, it is what it is, I'm cancelling A50 entirely, and reinvoking it immediately after. There. We just bought an extension for precisely 2 years to the day. Also, I resign. [07:12]
Faux I suspect that it is written down that some council must accept unilateral revocation, but they don't have to submit submission of a50 in any case, and they have decided that they won't accept it this time? [07:12]
surial But apparently that's not a move they can make. So sayeth the ECJ. I don't understand why that isn't a legal move. [07:12]
surial Faux: possibly, in which case the cancel-A50-reinvoke-it-immediately strategy is still alive, just, it's +2weeks or whatever time it takes for some council to do the legally obligated move of acknowledging the A50 cancel. [07:15]
Faux I'm suggesting that they can just say "fuck you". [07:19]
Faux Because they're in a bad mood. [07:19]
Faux And they've decided that they're in a bad mood. [07:19]
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fotato sonOfRa: spotify:track:4YmBVg2RRSCg3ba77g1ilQ%5D [08:48]
sonOfRa apparently my spotify is no longer able to properly open track links [08:48]
sonOfRa It just opens another spotify window exactly at the song where I already was [08:49]
fotato Sad. [08:53]
fotato Paste it into search. [08:53]
Addax OpenWeatherMap may not approve the usage of a token for javabot :/ [09:02]
ableto [ableto!~cryptum@] has joined #java-talk [09:03]
freeone3000 Addax: ? There's no human involved. [09:18]
freeone3000 Addax: Or is there a specific TOS violation here? [09:18]
freeone3000 sonOfRa: She sure has the issue surrounded. [09:20]
Addax freeone3000: There shouldn't be; I requested a token and the approval process is supposed to take an hour. I received the token, but the approval hasn't occurred - and this was requested yesterday late morning. [09:21]
freeone3000 Wait hold on, approval process? I requested one yesterday and it was just... there. [09:22]
Addax I got the token, but I never got the notification that it was ready for use. USING the token this morning failed, too, with a 401. [09:22]
Addax ah, I found the problem, i feel much better now - stupid error on my part [09:24]
freeone3000 If it's "I forgot to pass the apikey to the URL", that's the same problem I had. :D [09:24]
Addax worser than that: I had an extra $ in the rendering [09:25]
Addax so: "$API_URL${location}&APPID=$$appid" [09:25]
Addax fatfingered it [09:25]
fotato [09:26]
fotato fotato's title: "Apex Legends is a game-changing multiplayer experience for women" [09:26]
fotato "making things better for women by not letting anyone speak" is a pretty sad state of affairs. [09:27]
fotato well, "not letting" is an exaggeration [09:27]
freeone3000 "making it playable without speaking"? [09:28]
fotato still it's kind of sad that the solution here is "you dont have to talk now" [09:28]
fotato right. [09:28]
freeone3000 meanwhile ffxiv makes it better for women by having a diverse and accepting community [09:28]
fotato it's great from an accessibility standpoint. [09:28]
Addax freeone3000: also worth noting: their docs kinda suck :) [09:29]
Addax their example responses don't include some of the data that comes back [09:29]
sonOfRa :D [09:30]
sonOfRa sonOfRa's title: "Scott Mann on Twitter: "Every knife sold in the UK should have a gps tracker fitted in the handle. Its time we had a national database like we do with guns. If youre carrying it around you had better have a bloody good explanation, obvious exemptions for fishing etc."" [09:31]
sonOfRa National Knife Database [09:31]
sonOfRa Fit all knives with GPS trackers! [09:31]
Faux Kniosence. [09:31]
Faux One of the supermarkets was claiming that knives are commonly shoplifted, to the point that they're going to stop selling them individually. [09:32]
surial Faux: tesco or some other giant supermarket chain. [09:32]
sonOfRa Also [09:33]
sonOfRa Isn't wrapping the handle in tin foil enough to block the gps tracker for the knife? [09:33]
fotato you already can carry a knife with good reason in the UK [09:35]
fotato what is that person harping on about [09:35]
fotato it's literally illegal to carry knives. [09:36]
fotato Faux: i got ID'd buying a knife _block_ in sainsburys once. [09:36]
fotato just the block. no knives in it. [09:36]
waz hah [09:36]
waz that's like buying a holster, suspicious [09:37]
fotato watch out, he has a conceal carry knife block [09:37]
fotato either that or he's... reallyhappy to see us and horribly disfigured. [09:37]
fotato also, can we talk about how avengers endgame calls thanos' snap, which kills exactly half the universe, "the decimation"? [09:38]
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surial fotato: presumably this person is 'harping on about' the general notion that whilst Queen and Government have decreed that carrying a knife is illegal, nevertheless somehow if one carries a knife illegal, the laws of nature somehow allow this state of affairs. [09:38]
surial fotato: only 1/10th survives it, hence, decimation. [09:39]
surial fotato: NB: binary. [09:39]
[twisti] wtf [09:39]
fotato it's a meaningless statement and desire, surial. a registry doesn't solve anything. also: screwdrivers. [09:39]
fotato i guess logic was never important to these people. [09:40]
surial fotato: GPS trackers would help. You can murder someone with a slightly sharpened spoon (see: US prisons). But it's still harder than waltzing down to the local tesco's and buying a gigantic hunting knife. [09:40]
sonOfRa GPS trackers, in *knives*? [09:41]
sonOfRa That's not going to fucking work [09:41]
sonOfRa How are you going to get every manufacturer of kitchen knives to put GPS trackers in their knives [09:41]
sonOfRa Much less ones that people can't remove [09:42]
sonOfRa Or ones that never run out of battery [09:42]
fotato tesco doesn't sell hunting knives. just kitchen knives [09:42]
surial I doubt the intent of scott mann or some such is that a registry would eliminate knife murder. But it would reduce it, based on the notion that making it harder (but in no way impossible) to obtain an implement with a high level of efficacy in committing violent acts, reduces crime. i.e. if you can freely buy 6-shooters but you have to jump through hoops to buy automated assault guns, you reduce mass school murders. Even if [09:42]
surial you can still murder rather a lot of folks with a bunch of 6-shooters and even if, with enough perseverance, you can still obtain automated assault guns. [09:42]
sonOfRa Or... confiscate literally every single one of the 10s of millions of knives to retrofit them with gps trackers? [09:43]
surial sonOfRa: yes, this particular notion doesn't sound workable, but some sort of 'mabbe make it harder to obtain them, and whilst you are at it, make them illegal and ask the populace to surrender some' has some legs. [09:43]
sonOfRa Make it harder to obtain... Kitchen knives? [09:43]
surial Example: There are bazillions of guns, unregistered, in australia. Or, there were. [09:43]
surial sonOfRa: I'm not a fucking lawmaker. [09:43]
surial I'm just saying that the notion is not inherently stupid. [09:44]
surial Australia asked the populace to go hand em in, admitting freely they had no way to track any of it, and australians did. [09:44]
fotato screwdrivers. [09:44]
fotato bradawls. [09:44]
surial fotato: ... is far more difficult to commit murder with, is presumably the theory being espoused here. [09:45]
sonOfRa Yes but kitchen knives [09:45]
sonOfRa Are very very easy to commit murder with [09:45]
sonOfRa And they are widely available, and should be! [09:45]
fotato cars are pretty easy to commit murder with [09:45]
fotato there should be gps tracker in th-oh. [09:45]
surial but that gets into a different issue. [09:49]
surial copycatting. [09:49]
surial There are many ways to commit mass murder. But, in the US, for whatever reason, the notion 'buy assault weapon, shoot up school' is real popular. Lots of copycats. [09:50]
surial in germany, it's 'hijack a truck, drive into a crowd'. In the UK, and absolute.y no where else in europe even though you can buy big ass kitchen knifes just as easily for example here in NL... it's stab some poor soul with a kitchen knife. [09:50]
surial On one hand you can say: There is no point putting laws and procedures in place to stop specifically that one thing, because those with intent-to-murder can trivially find another way to do it, based on the idea that you and I are not morons and can trivially think of a great many implements of violence easily enough obtained. [09:51]
surial And yet.... [09:51]
[twisti] i feel upset that my awesome steam link got burried under this idiotic argument [09:52]
surial people keep murdering people with big kitchen knives, and there where a 'trend' was fought, the violence decreased. In other words, whilst banning sales of kitchen knives without asking for a permit first seems fucking stupid to you, nevertheless it might actually work. It has in the past for (to me anyway) seemingly similar situations, and no amount of 'but.. screwdrivers!' seems relevant. [09:52]
[twisti] youre bad [09:52]
[twisti] and you should feel bad [09:52]
surial [twisti]: since when does dwarf fortess have a non-ascii interface? I mean, this is ADOM-level primitive, but it's more than you got, no? [09:53]
sonOfRa I honestly can't tell if you're taking the piss [09:53]
sonOfRa surial: the difference being that a kitchen knife is something that a vast majority of people need and use every day, in comparison to, say, a gun [09:55]
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fotato sonOfRa: what do you mean? [09:56]
fotato fotato's title: "The Simpsons - Homer and his gun - YouTube" [09:56]
sonOfRa fotato: :D [09:56]
surial sonOfRa: yup and that probably has quite some impact on any attempt to specifically fight kitchen knives. [09:57]
surial but, hey, i wasn't the one saying '... but...screwdrivers!". I was pointing out that whilst that argument seems to self-evidently put the kaibosh on any plan to limit access to kitchen knives, it's a bad argument. [09:58]
surial or at least, not sufficient alone. [09:58]
fotato fundamentally disagree but ok. [09:58]
fotato this argument is dumb [09:58]
fotato I AM SURPRISED. [09:58]
fotato NOT. [09:58]
fotato also "kibosh" doesn't have an A in it. [09:59]
waz popcorn [10:00]
waz [10:00]
fotato ^ seriously [10:00]
sonOfRa Sure, limit hunting knives to hunters. But then, also limit camping knives, diving knives, climbing knives etc. Require licenses for them all [10:02]
sonOfRa This... does not scale. [10:03]
fotato butter knife? gonna need to see a butter license. [10:03]
Faux Most types of knives are already illegal, and carrying any knife in public without due cause is also illegal. [10:03]
fotato i'm sorry sir you're not a cow. [10:03]
sonOfRa Who's going to verify every time that you are indeed a climber? Or that you dive? Or that you go camping? [10:03]
fotato literally what i said in the first place Faux but he latched onto my strawman. [10:03]
Faux sonOfRa: ..we already have that law. [10:03]
sonOfRa Faux: yes and evidently [10:03]
sonOfRa It... Doesn't fucking work [10:03]
sonOfRa Because it never could have worked [10:04]
Faux It does. We confiscate knives from hundreds of black teenagers every week. [10:04]
Faux 'cos black teenagers in ghettos clearly aren't divers or climbers. [10:04]
Faux Or chefs. [10:04]
fotato you get stopped by police with a sharp pointy thing they're going to want to know why you have that pointy thing. [10:04]
Faux 'cos they're black, y'see. [10:04]
fotato you dont have a reason? you're carrying an offensive weapon. [10:04]
sonOfRa Faux: no I mean the *buying* thing [10:04]
fotato there's already an age limit. [10:05]
fotato raise it? [10:05]
fotato people keep knives at home, on the kitchen counter. [10:05]
Faux And most fun types of knives (e.g. locking) are illegal to sell to.. anyone/) [10:05]
fotato they're just... there. [10:05]
fotato Faux: selling is fine, not carrying. [10:05]
fotato my leatherman, bought from a UK reseller, has a locking blade. [10:05]
Faux Pretty sure some common knife type is illegal? Flick? [10:06]
fotato (i've carried it around london before. dont tell the police. oh wait i'm not brown ololol) [10:06]
Faux There's some special kind of locking blade which doesn't count as locking or something. [10:06]
waz hunted all my life and never have needed a 'hunting' knife'. Just a super sharp pocket knife for cleaning kills [10:06]
sonOfRa The only way you can properly enforce this is an *actual* police state [10:06]
fotato there's certain categories of knives that are straight up illegal yes. [10:06]
sonOfRa Not just the pretend-almost-not-quite-yet police state the UK already is [10:06]
Faux butterfly knives (also known as ?balisongs?) - a blade hidden inside a handle that splits in the middle [10:07]
Faux flick knives (also known as ?switchblades? or ?automatic knives?) - a blade hidden inside a handle which shoots out when a button is pressed [10:07]
fotato yeah those. [10:07]
Faux gravity knives [10:07]
Faux SWITCHBLADES are the type of locking I was thinking of, I think. [10:07]
fotato fuck that scene in kick-ass was cool. [10:07]
fotato [10:08]
fotato fotato's title: "Hit Girl Balisong Scene - Kick Ass - YouTube" [10:08]
surial [10:08]
fotato refuses to acknowledge alternative forms. [10:08]
surial For a second there I thought I made a mistake, but, no, I am as yet infallible. [10:08]
sonOfRa Dieses Video umfasst Inhalte von NBC Universal. Dieser Partner hat das Video in deinem Land aus urheberrechtlichen Gründen gesperrt. [10:08]
sonOfRa Fuck you, youtube [10:08]
Faux Also banned here. [10:08]
surial actually I believe you'll find it is in fact NBC Universal deserving of your amorous attention. [10:09]
fotato sigh [10:09]
fotato just google for an alternative. [10:09]
fotato or use tubeunblock [10:10]
Faux mpv [10:10]
sonOfRa there should be a kick-ass 3 :( [10:10]
fotato i didnt like the sequel [10:10]
sonOfRa huh [10:10]
fotato the graphic novel sucked too [10:11]
fotato heh i just got reminded of [10:12]
fotato fotato's title: "You're not wrong Walter, you're just an asshole. - YouTube" [10:12]
fotato needs to rewatch that [10:13]
Faux never seen it [10:15]
fotato it's on netflix [10:16]
fotato in... america [10:16]
fotato probably not in brexistan [10:16]
Faux Probably on my media machine, too. [10:16]
fotato also with respect to the date i would like to draw this chan's attention to the dramafest that is [10:17]
fotato fotato's title: "Talk:Dumpling - Wikipedia" [10:17]
fotato (and the surrounding talk on various other topics) [10:17]
fotato > the common content and dough form of a dumbling is different to that of a pie [10:18]
fotato what a fucking dumbling. [10:18]
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freeone3000 today Pizza Pizza is offering a pizza for $3.14 [10:52]
freeone3000 It's not worth it. [10:52]
Faux sonOfRa: Spoke to some people yesterday who were convinced that aes128 was broken, people who claimed to have phds in crypto and run public services, it was very surreal. [10:52]
sonOfRa what the shit [10:53]
Faux Obviously Google, Mozilla, Apple, Microsoft etc. are in some kind of NSA conspiracy. [10:54]
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sonOfRa obviously [10:55]
sonOfRa Did they say *how* it was broken? [10:55]
sonOfRa I am quite interested in crackpot theorists! [10:55]
Faux No, only that it wasn't recommended for anything except legacy applications because the NSA can break it. [10:55]
Faux I think was mentioned (which I admit I don't understand), but. [10:56]
Faux Faux's title: "Cryptology ePrint Archive: Report 2009/581 - A Diagonal Fault Attack on the Advanced Encryption Standard" [10:56]
sonOfRa Oh that one is cool [10:57]
fotato freeone3000: pizza, like sex, is fine even when it's bad. [10:57]
Faux Last recommendation I saw was that you should probably use aes128 over aes256 because it is better analysed and tested and the key- and round-size benefits are gazumped by that. [10:57]
sonOfRa It doesn't really matter; there are some attacks on the aes256 key schedule [10:58]
sonOfRa If you can force your victim to use *related keys* [10:58]
Faux Even ignoring that! [10:58]
sonOfRa That is, you don't know what the keys are, but you know that the keys are somehow related [10:58]
Faux key1=hmac('penis', key); key2=hmac('dongs', key); [10:59]
sonOfRa exactly [10:59]
Faux I am pretty sure that doesn't count as a related key, anyway. [10:59]
sonOfRa Then you immediately know that the aes key is just b0 0b b0 0b b0 0b b0 0b b0 0b b0 0b b0 0b b0 0b b0 0b b0 0b b0 0b b0 0b b0 0b b0 0b b0 0b b0 0b [10:59]
sonOfRa very related! [11:00]
Faux My brain was like "is that some kind of identity matrix in hex?" before reading it as a joke. [11:00]
sonOfRa Faux: the paper is pretty cool; Basically the AES state is generally represented as a 4x4 byte matrix internally. [11:01]
sonOfRa The way the subbytes step works is apparently, that if you force a fault in the state matrix, that fault propagates in specific ways [11:02]
freeone3000 You can't just inject a fault, though. [11:02]
sonOfRa Exactly [11:02]
sonOfRa Fault attacks are nice for, say, dumping keys out of a chip [11:03]
freeone3000 And moreover, even if you do, this exact thing is detectable *by the library* without affecting either correctness or security. [11:03]
sonOfRa They're almost completely useless for, say, attacking TLS [11:03]
freeone3000 (Microsoft has *patched this*) [11:03]
Faux wait what. [11:04]
Faux Faux's title: "GitHub - NVIDIA/nvidia-docker: Build and run Docker containers leveraging NVIDIA GPUs" [11:04]
fotato useful. [11:04]
freeone3000 (There was a later paper which I couldn't find that actually induced instabilities in the internal matrix to induce a fault to exploit through this by carefully chosen plaintext. The patch introduces a minor pertrubation in the 7th step that makes this step impossible.) [11:05]
freeone3000 Faux: Yeah. [11:05]
Faux I need to read the paper. [11:05]
sonOfRa oh dear. [11:12]
sonOfRa sonOfRa's title: "shoshana wodinsky on Twitter: "lol facebook just filed a patent application to boost their security... following what might be the most massive facebook outage in the platform's history"" [11:12]
sonOfRa I mean it's likely unrelated, but still. [11:12]
Faux We had a tech talk from a facebook employee about monitoring and metrics yesterday. [11:13]
Faux It was boring beyond words. [11:13]
freeone3000 sonOfRa: Well, it's a good thing that we don't use facebook to log into anything. [11:15]
sonOfRa good thing noone does that! [11:15]
whaley I'm interested to see what the postmortem is on their outage yesterday [11:15]
Addax freeone3000: there's a PR for the weather plugin for javabot - it's not a thing of beauty but it works [11:16]
Addax whaley: "wait... we kinda suck, this was God showing the world what a nicer place it would be without us" [11:16]
Addax meanwhile twitter was internally SURELY screaming "... we want to laugh BUT DO NOT TEMPT GOD" [11:16]
whaley Actually RT'ed someone saying something snarky about how this shows God likes Twitter more... which is comical, until I realize this shit can happen to twitter any moment for who knows what reason [11:17]
Addax Twitter's almost as nasty as facebook when it comes to social media - highly useful and naturally humans do it wrong [11:17]
whaley though, seeing in the inside, there's some relatively mature practices for escalations that are nearing SLO breaches. There should be, the place had lots of practice over the years [11:17]
Faux \o/ [11:18]
Faux Faux's title: "Trump faces Senate revolt in vote on border emergency - BBC News" [11:18]
Addax What's an SLO breach? I don't know what that term means [11:18]
Faux Service Level Obligation. [11:18]
Addax ah, okay, thank you [11:18]
whaley there was a great interview with Ashley Judd on TED Radio Hour where she basically said (and I paraphrase), "the platforms are neutral, but they are amplifying. Humans need to be better" [11:18]
Faux Or Objective, depending on how pissy your customers are. [11:18]
freeone3000 Yes, that's the solution, get better humans. [11:19]
Addax whaley: indeed. Which makes the platforms trying to edit the humans even worse. [11:19]
freeone3000 Preists have been trying for thousands of years. No. [11:19]
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freeone3000 The humans aren' [11:19]
Addax It might be nice to have FB or whatever say "BTW, the claim in post X seems to be unsubstantiated by, like, reality" but.... [11:20]
whaley Addax: as I understand, SLA is the legalese version, SLO is the technical version for public things. The SLA is basically a bunch of combined SLOs. [11:20]
freeone3000 The humans aren't going to get better, so we're going to fix the humans on the server-side. That way, the humans can say whatever, and we properly cordon them off so that they do no harm. [11:20]
Addax whaley: makes sense [11:20]
Addax freeone3000: and naturally that gets done wrong [11:20]
whaley SLO also being just a granular definition for a single metric and what is acceptable [11:20]
Addax look at medium: if you want promotion, you not only have to write well, but you better write for the blue tribe too [11:20]
freeone3000 Addax: Look, eventualy we'll remove the humans from the loop altogether, so that they think they're conversing with other humans but are simply conversing with markov-generated intelligences designed to make them think the correct thoughts. [11:21]
Addax red tribe posts have a much rarer acceptance rate by medium for promotion [11:21]
Addax freeone3000: that might make the aliens think we're smarter though [11:21]
Addax make the markov chains' token input long enough and they might actually not sound like computer babble [11:21]
freeone3000 I think that if the large companies continue to be this up-front and this cartoonishly evil about it, eventually people will realize that the portal to free speech isn't on someone else's website. [11:22]
Addax but clickses! [11:22]
freeone3000 ...And maybe some red hatters will pick up some infosec skills, instead of publishing their root credentials in a file pushed to the client. [11:22]
freeone3000 wait hold on are they delaying the vote to delay brexit in order to hold another vote on whether to have no deal or not? [11:24]
whaley they are having a vote to delay the vote to determine if they vote again [11:25]
whaley MOAR VOTES [11:26]
whaley except for no confidence votes [11:26]
freeone3000 If this was a python sketch, they'd [11:27]
freeone3000 They'd pull the "stop this, it's silly" and move on. [11:28]
surial we need the cartoon foot to come down. [11:28]
tang^ I can make the thrppt sound [11:35]
whaley plays Benny Hill music [11:37]
whaley Addax: <-- better defined here [11:43]
whaley whaley's title: "Google - Site Reliability Engineering" [11:43]
Addax grazi [11:44]
whaley I sort of work in SRE land now, so I hear this sort of thing way more often [11:44]
ron are all big companies evil? [11:45]
freeone3000 Define evil [11:45]
tang^ yes [11:45]
freeone3000 Is proceeding forward with an agenda for personal profit with little to no regard how it affects other people or society at large evil? [11:45]
Addax that's... not what conservatism or republicanism is at all [11:46]
Addax even as a "stupid joke" that's ... pretty icky [11:46]
tang^ repuclicisanism? [11:46]
tang^ makes notes about Faux [11:47]
Faux With that first 'c' being a 'b' it's almost what I meant. [11:47]
freeone3000 Faux: I don't really see what deposing the queen has to do with personal profit, but okay. [11:47]
whaley ron: are you evil? [11:48]
tang^ freeone3000: really isn't about personal profit, though... more about shareholder profit [11:49]
freeone3000 tang^: There are large companies that are not corporations. Also, you'll find most corporations are significant shareholders in themselves. [11:49]
whaley I am a meat popsicle [11:50]
tang^ licks whaley [11:50]
tang^ brr [11:50]
ron whaley: am I? [11:51]
whaley yes [11:51]
ron ok then [11:52]
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ron sigh. I find it too often that I want to extract some data from github, don't find a simple way, contact them, and get a reply "what an awesome idea! but we don't support it now." [11:55]
Faux So, question. How would you explain the default maven dependency resolution strategy (which results in duplicates), and what you're supposed to do about it, to someone? [11:57]
Faux Apart from "it's fucked and run away"? [11:57]
ron "use ant" [11:58]
tang^ duplicates? [11:59]
tang^ you have to do a bit of work to get duplicates, iirc [11:59]
whaley ^ [12:01]
whaley USE A MONOREPO [12:01]
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ron I think fotato is dead. RIP. [12:29]
freeone3000 Faux: What we do is maven-enforcer-plugin to enforce latest-version and convergence [12:37]
Faux Yes. That's what everyone sane does. Unfortunately, we're building tooling to deal with real world users. [12:38]
freeone3000 real world users that... aren't java developers? [12:38]
tang^ are you trying to suggest that Java developers are sane? [12:39]
ron he assumes most developers are incompetent which is a fair assumption [12:39]
Faux Most Java developers aren't Java developers, freeone3000. [12:39]
ron see [12:39]
Faux We have spent about three weeks trying to explain gradle configurations to this gradle user. [12:39]
ron yeah, kinda like yesterday I had to show a user that they have a configuration issue in their azure-based app, even though I've never used azure myself. [12:40]
ron ¯\_(?)_/¯ [12:40]
Faux It's okay, I gave up faith in pretty much everyone (including myself) about four years ago. [12:40]
fotato i was killed by banality. [12:43]
freeone3000 ron: Extract some data in what sense? [12:44]
ron freeone3000: in the sense that I want to get some data [12:47]
tang^ presumably metadata about the repo(s) [12:47]
freeone3000 Ugh we own them I have msr data access what data do you actually want and I'll see if we can't finangle a public policy [12:52]
Faux oh my god the funrolling. [01:01]
Faux Faux's title: "rust_minifb/X11MiniFB.c at 17aa43443f5edbec72f4761bab7ca737848c19e3 FauxFaux/rust_minifb GitHub" [01:01]
freeone3000 Faux: Have you considered SIMD? [01:02]
Faux Gotta riir first. [01:03]
Faux I wonder if the loop vectoriser is smart enough to unfuck that code. [01:03]
freeone3000 *I'm* smart enough to unfuck that code, so the loop vectorizer better be! [01:04]
Faux You're quite a lot smarter than the loop vectoriser, freeone3000. [01:04]
Faux That gcc9(?) thing looked cool. [01:04]
Faux "What is the optimizer doing?" (page loads weirdly here.. wait or scroll down a *lot*) [01:05]
Faux That code is so weird. So many attempts to trip up the optimiser. Bet it helps on vs6 or something. [01:07]
freeone3000 they just threw a asm volatile straight in the middle of a loop, like madmen [01:10]
Faux The minifb code, not the blog post example. :p [01:10]
freeone3000 minifb code is an unrolled simd vector-assign [01:13]
freeone3000 actually... I'd just use memset [01:13]
Faux It is unrolling the scaling, which I don't think you can't use just one meme-set for. [01:14]
freeone3000 no, you'd use four, one for each contiguous rango [01:14]
freeone3000 no, you'd use four, one for each contiguous range [01:14]
Faux I don't know if there are more mechanically sympathetic scaling algorithms. [01:14]
freeone3000 you don't need one, this is literally _mm_load1_pd()) [01:15]
freeone3000 also: yes, there are, but scaling in which sense? this looks like a tensor reprojection into a 4x larger space by bitmap expansion? [01:16]
freeone3000 but... with a single value? [01:16]
Faux It is image scaling; pixel doubling. [01:16]
Faux (or quadrupling, or octupling) [01:16]
freeone3000 but why is everything set to t in the same grid square? [01:17]
Faux It is a poor thing to implement because you need to write 1x1 -> 1x1, 1x2, 2x1 and 2x2. [01:17]
Faux That's what pixel doubling is. [01:17]
freeone3000 okay, it's 4x, that's why [01:17]
Faux There is a 2x and an 8x and a 16x and a 32x also implemented by copy-paste too. [01:18]
Faux That was the thing I was laughing about. [01:18]
freeone3000 yeah, still _mm_load1_pd() and __mm_set1_epi32() with appropriately chosen strides. [01:20]
Faux I'm really hoping the vectorisator will vectinise it fo rme. [01:20]
freeone3000 it really better. [01:20]
freeone3000 because I had to pull up the docs for this and look for nearly a minute to figure out whether strides could apply to rows [01:21]
Faux I'm not convinced it is vectorisable like that, anyway. /away [01:22]
fotato nerds. [01:22]
tang^ way over my head [01:22]
acuzio morning ladies [01:44]
acuzio ron: i am not dead - at least not yet [01:44]
ron acuzio: I love you [01:44]
ableto parted the channel: "Leaving" [01:45]
acuzio ron: hmm ., ok. thanks [01:45]
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acuzio So in the UK - here is a thing : MP's can take as many votes as they want , the public cant [01:47]
ron [01:47]
ron ron's title: "Corey Quinn on Twitter: "*pager goes off* My date: Ooh, are you a doctor? PagerDuty: The autoscaling group lost an instance!!! Me: yes. Yes I am. Date: What kind? Me: Im an on-callogist."" [01:47]
ron acuzio: you're so awesome man [01:47]
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acuzio ron: i am not sure what you are smoking but continue [01:49]
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fotato i'd tell acuzio how awesome he is but he has me on ignore. [02:02]
ron acuzio: you're the best [02:06]
freeone3000 "snow volume for last 3 hours, in decibels" [02:07]
acuzio fotato: thank you [02:16]
acuzio ron: thank you [02:16]
fotato zero. you are zero awesome. [02:16]
fotato trollface. [02:16]
whaley fotato is back, everyone can relax now [02:23]
fotato believe it or not i was working. [02:24]
whaley go run fotato_work.go [02:25]
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acuzio yes we can all relax [02:45]
fotato NO RELAXING [02:49]
ron acuzio: you are the best thing this channel has to offer [02:49]
fotato why is ron being so nice today [02:50]
fotato is he dying [02:50]
ron am I? [02:51]
tang^ aren't we all? [02:53]
ron that was wrt being nice [02:55]
fotato well you're not being overtly dickish [02:55]
ron are you sure? [02:57]
waz how is that being nice? [02:58]
waz he just insulted all of us [02:58]
ron did I though? [03:00]
fotato [03:19]
Faux ^ cold ass-honkey. [03:21]
acuzio thanks ron [03:21]
acuzio waz: he is being nice to me [03:21]
acuzio i suspect he is passing the medicinal herbs shops in WA or SF and getting inadvertently high [03:22]
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fotato i keep telling ronno to try THC products to help with pain/sleep but he refuses because obviously drugs are bad. [03:23]
whaley ron: eat the edibles or fotato will break your back [03:26]
fotato careful, i've had whey today [03:27]
fotato feeling EXTRA feisty. [03:28]
Faux I keep reading whey as wine in these conversations. [03:28]
acuzio you are not far off Faux [03:29]
whaley fotato: wait till you try some whaley [03:30]
Faux Oh no. [03:30]
fotato whyhaven't you created a range of proteins called wheyley whaley [03:33]
whaley I hate money [03:33]
fotato i hate it too which is why i'm trying to get rid of it as quickly as possible [03:34]
fotato hence living in new yorl. [03:34]
fotato york [03:34]
freeone3000 [03:37]
freeone3000 freeone3000's title: "Brexit delay: What just happened? - BBC News" [03:37]
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fotato they're going to seek a delay which the EU wont grant. [03:42]
ron election time in Israel is the worst [03:47]
freeone3000 They've approved a delay based on voting for a thing they voted against twice [03:48]
ron glad the elections are scheduled before I go there. sigh. [03:50]
Faux Make sure you don't Isrexit. [03:52]
freeone3000 They're only part of Europe for the song thing. [03:53]
Faux Oh yeah. [03:53]
waz it's worse than here? [03:56]
Faux It's worse than here? [03:57]
ron hamas regularly starts shooting rockets (as they did about 30 minutes) ago to Israel, to affect the election results. you tell me, is it worse? [03:58]
waz fake news [03:59]
Faux Yeah, pretty sure I'd take the rockets right now. [04:00]
Faux (Not really. Sorry to hear that, ronno.) [04:00]
ron they managed to take down one of the rockets, the other is somehow 'missing'. maybe they found it by now. [04:01]
Faux Why don't they just put GPS trackers in the rockets and limit the sales? [04:01]
ron they're homemade [04:01]
fotato why dont they just ban rockets? [04:02]
ron because as bad as shit is there, they're not trump-level commentary bad. [04:03]
fotato they should have a rocket license which is required to buy rockets. [04:03]
ron ok [04:04]
waz we need more rocket control laws [04:04]
fotato but they'll just use grenades instead waz [04:05]
ron they literally use kites. [04:05]
fotato we need to ban kites. [04:06]
Faux You can't call them kikes anymore ron. [04:06]
fotato we need to ban kikes. [04:06]
Faux ^ the kind of joke that you could probably get arrested for. [04:06]
ron ... [04:06]
ron ok, lunch is ready. later. [04:06]
freeone3000 priviledge escalation from ADMIN to KERNEL [04:06]
freeone3000 freeone3000's title: "Project Zero: Windows Kernel Logic Bug Class: Access Mode Mismatch in IO Manager" [04:06]
Faux riir [04:06]
fotato probably [04:07]
freeone3000 augh "NtFsControlFile" is so. augh. [04:08]
fotato not safe for control files. [04:10]
acuzio ok ron you win , its so fucking complex that i dont think anyone now understands this [04:13]
acuzio i meant the topic du jour - re : Brexit [04:15]
freeone3000 of course the bug's in smb2 [04:16]
freeone3000 is the same bug from the MSRC side which has nicer diagrams but uses inspeak [04:17]
freeone3000 freeone3000's title: "Local privilege escalation via the Windows I/O Manager: a variant finding collaboration Security Research & Defense" [04:17]
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ron acuzio: what does that have to do with anything I said? [04:27]
Faux TIL "ansible" is an anagram of "lesbian". [04:31]
fotato i'm in ansibles with you [04:32]
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tang^ you are such an ansible [05:06]
tang^ uhh? this Autodesk SDK can't install with Windows Explorer open? [05:09]
tang^ wth is it installing? [05:09]
ron wth do you have IE running? [05:11]
ron oh windows [05:11]
tang^ WE, not IE [05:11]
ron wth are you in windows? [05:11]
ron on [05:11]
ron at [05:11]
ron with [05:11]
ron to [05:11]
ron whatever [05:11]
tang^ documenting some stuff that only runs in winders [05:11]
tang^ it's a VM [05:11]
ron eew [05:11]
tang^ I've had to start this VM a bunch of times this week. when I'm done, I can go back to ignoring it [05:13]
freeone3000 tang^: It's likely got a race condition in its right-click handle registration and hasn't updated it since XP [05:14]
tang^ yeah, but what in an SDK needs right click handling in explorer? [05:15]
Faux Open Command Prompt Here? [05:22]
Faux But more likely icon extensions. [05:22]
tang^ shrugs [05:26]
tang^ damnit, I need to learn to use find -iname more often [05:47]
Faux Woo, find! [05:48]
tang^ "wth can't I find this file with ls?" most other operations understand the fs isn't case sensitive [05:48]
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ron the whaley is in. [09:21]
whaley fuck the javascript [09:21]
ron fuck the world [09:29]
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fotato [09:51]
fotato fotato's title: "angel olsen - unfucktheworld - YouTube" [09:51]