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« 2019-09-10


2019-09-12 »

Nick Message Date
KekSi 'morning [01:27]
dodobrain o/ [01:36]
puppy_za [puppy_za!uid277586@gateway/web/] has joined #java-talk [01:48]
puppy_za morning [01:48]
BluesBoy [BluesBoy!] has joined #java-talk [01:57]
TomTom [TomTom!uid45892@gateway/web/] has joined #java-talk [02:10]
Matthijs [Matthijs!~quassel@unaffiliated/matthijs] has joined #java-talk [02:48]
sonOfRa morning [03:37]
Bombe Good morning. [03:55]
puppy_za another day. another new iphone [03:59]
Bombe ¯\_(?)_/¯ [04:05]
puppy_za I am wondering if I should wait till next year when 5G becomes a thing [04:13]
sonOfRa just buy a new phone if you think you'll need one. There's *always* going to be a better phone coming out 1-3 months after you buy [04:14]
sonOfRa It doesn't matter when you buy [04:14]
sonOfRa This is true for all tech purchasing decisions. [04:14]
Faux moans about helm and k8s a bit more. [04:15]
puppy_za I don't really need a new phone right now. That's why I am still contemplating. [04:15]
puppy_za Faux: what's wrong now [04:15]
sonOfRa Then doN't buy one. Run it until the earlier point of: No more updates or Something broke [04:15]
KekSi well yeah it does quite a bit when there's a new tech coming like when 4G did and now with 5G on the horizon (though possibly this may be a joke in germany) [04:15]
sonOfRa you're gonna buy a new phone 3-ish years later anyhow. [04:16]
sonOfRa And then: what do you do on mobile that 4g isn't enough for [04:16]
KekSi like with the first gen iphone when 3G was already out and you were stuck on 2G [04:16]
Faux Today I want to update env vars without building a new version of the app, which I'm pretty sure is supported but the helm docs are useless for, because it's not the HAPPY PATH. [04:16]
Bombe 3G and 4G are still a joke in Germany so don?t hold your breath. [04:16]
KekSi yea, sadly [04:16]
Bombe Also, 5G is easily blocked by? hands. Good luck getting that to work on a phone. [04:17]
KekSi 5G is supposed to bring a shitload lower latency [04:17]
KekSi and when you're still on 4G you'll get annoyed quickly [04:17]
KekSi Bombe: that was the same thing with 4G aswell -- especially on iphones you could hold it "wrong" :x [04:17]
puppy_za haha [04:18]
Bombe No, that was just a design flaw, hands blocking 5G is physics. [04:18]
KekSi yes, antenna design which is pretty much the same thing with pretty much all frequencies -- but some frequencies just won't go through water (as in what's blocking in your hands) and that's likely a probem [04:20]
sonOfRa lmao. In Hamburg there's an art installation "blue port" where an artist slapped a bunch of blue lights on a lot of parts in hamburg, but especially the port. The city even had an official photo competition for it. [04:30]
sonOfRa Now the artist is suing people who post the pictures they took on instagram :D [04:30]
Faux Into the sea. [04:31]
puppy_za copyright infringement? [04:32]
sonOfRa yup [04:32]
sonOfRa And it's not like the port is tiny [04:35]
sonOfRa You can see and photograph it from a lot of places in hamburg, and all those pictures are now copyrighted by the artist [04:35]
puppy_za that sounds a bit fishy [04:36]
Bombe Same as the Eifel tower at night. [04:36]
Bombe Totally stupid but apparently legal. [04:36]
sonOfRa Bombe: yes, but it is kinda different: In Germany you have panoramic freedom [04:37]
sonOfRa In France, you don't [04:37]
sonOfRa However: Panoramic freedom in Germany only applies to *permanent* things [04:37]
sonOfRa A 2-week light fixture is not permanent [04:37]
Bombe I don?t have panoramic freedom, there?s a cruise liner directly in front of the office window! [04:37]
sonOfRa D [04:37]
Faux > Please note: by default, Tiller is deployed with an insecure 'allow unauthenticated users' policy. To prevent this, run `helm init` with the --tiller-tls-verify flag. [04:43]
puppy_za that doesn't sound promising [04:44]
sonOfRa Faux: does it do TLS certificate authentication? Because that flag doesn't sound related to "allow unauthenticated users"? [04:44]
Faux lalal [04:45]
puppy_za I'm doing some front-end stuff with a client. The client's team decided to roll their own version of Redux (and I rolled my eyes) [05:05]
KekSi one of our customers still *only* allows us to do updates every 6 months [05:31]
KekSi and now they're complaining that the release last night led to some unneccessary emails and sms [05:31]
KekSi facepalms [05:32]
puppy_za that's why the world will never be safe from security exploits :p [05:35]
KekSi > this is why we can't have nice things [05:36]
KekSi gigantic releases are always going to cause more problems than small ones [05:36]
KekSi we've been telling them for ages but they still don't want it because they have to do mandatory trainings with all their employees whenever anything changes [05:37]
KekSi and apparently that has to be in person rather than a changelog or simply just letting ppl use it [05:37]
puppy_za that's a weird rule [05:39]
KekSi they're hardware maintenance people so they're not that techy obviously but still.. stupid [05:40]
Bombe There?s no end to how businesses choose to cripple themselves. [05:40]
KekSi that. [05:41]
puppy_za oh well, if you can educate them, try it. [05:43]
KekSi we've been trying for 3 years [05:44]
KekSi it's just not going to happen [05:44]
puppy_za I see [05:44]
KekSi since they were our first customer and we started out as a pilot project with a monolith then moved to microservices and more functionality it has changed a lot -- some updates i'm ok with their workflow (we revamped the entire UI and worked closely with them and at some point changed the permission/responsibility scheme entirely) [05:46]
KekSi it's their leading system for day-to-day work and a couple hundred mechanics out in the field rely on it [05:47]
KekSi so there's some things you won't find in a lot of other systems.. [05:48]
KekSi certain workflows/processes that are so super-specific to germany and that customer that they do need some explanation [05:48]
KekSi but this was an incremental update with mostly scalability/performance/availability changes and the UI hardly changed so why not let us do it in the background? -> fear something might go wrong and either measured data from the field is lost or it's not available for a couple of minutes during regular hours [05:50]
puppy_za well, assuming you test your UI for consistency then it really doesn't affect them :p [05:51]
KekSi nah, it's a hacky extjs mess :D [05:52]
puppy_za I actually worked with extjs before [05:52]
KekSi we've started phasing it out and lowering the information-density a lot and newer UI is angular as it's own app for usecases [05:53]
puppy_za oh [05:53]
puppy_za I never manaaged to learn Angular [05:53]
puppy_za I am doing a React course now :/ [05:53]
KekSi neider have i but we have like 15 frontend people who do much prefer it so i just let them use whatever they feel they can maintain for 5+ years and be quick developing new stuff [05:54]
puppy_za I see [05:54]
KekSi also a point because in my ~6 years here we've grown from 5 ppl to >50: you can at least find developers for angular while for extjs you're pretty much fucked because noone wants to do that [05:55]
puppy_za there is a temptation to make my own UI framework, but I am probably worse than GRRM in finishing the work [05:55]
puppy_za yeah [05:55]
puppy_za extjs is old [05:55]
KekSi also: there's more than enough js frameworks out there [05:55]
puppy_za I am wondering the efforts extjs put in to build something like a MS Windows UI system [05:56]
puppy_za true. but every programmer has their own pet project and pet wheel to reinvent :p [05:57]
KekSi since it's a framework you *buy* i'm guessing it's a lot different from most others..? [05:57]
KekSi oh, it's almost lunch time already [05:57]
puppy_za I was merely impressed by the windowing system [05:57]
puppy_za yeah [05:57]
puppy_za I need to buy food [05:58]
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sonOfRa heh. New dialogue box in the upcoming total war: warhammer 2 dlc [06:48]
KekSi not my kind of timewaster [07:02]
sonOfRa The text is important, not the game itself in this case [07:03]
[twisti] i just read a delightful article about using 200 million tea kettles to turn the kansas river in a tower of super heated plasma while turning the kettle base into an ever expanding sea of lava [07:03]
sonOfRa (although the game is *fucking awesome) [07:03]
sonOfRa but... why? [07:03]
[twisti] so you could cross the river (well, the drained out river bed) on foot, naturally [07:04]
sonOfRa ah yes. [07:04]
alec [alec!~alec@2a02:908:e843:240:3c4a:14cc:360e:129c] has joined #java-talk [07:45]
[twisti] well fuck me [07:46]
[twisti] i KNOW i solved the problem im currently having [07:46]
[twisti] but i dont remember what project it was in and i cant find it [07:46]
Faux Hee hee, I had three days of that last week. [07:47]
[twisti] it was a clever combination of mysql, mysqldump, rsync, lzmp and pipes to dump a db from one server to another without intermediate storage [07:47]
sonOfRa even mysql supports replication [07:48]
sonOfRa and it actually works [07:48]
sonOfRa Why would you go through that many hoops [07:48]
[twisti] mysql in general might, but the server im cloning doesnt [07:48]
sonOfRa Did you... compile mysql yourself to strip those capabilities out of it? Or do you just not have config access? [07:49]
[twisti] would you care to take a guess at which one is more likely ? [07:49]
sonOfRa I've seen things you people wouldn't believe, is all I'm saying. [07:49]
[twisti] dude arent you like 12 ? brudi, ive seen things you people wouldnt believe before you were born [07:50]
sonOfRa Actually I'm 8 [07:50]
Bombe Hahaha, Brudi! [07:50]
sonOfRa Brudi muss los. [07:50]
db Brudi. [07:51]
Bombe Tschüssen, Brudi! [07:51]
[twisti] ive decided to use brudi ironically in all international settings [07:51]
[twisti] im hoping i can make it a thing [07:51]
db Ehre genommen. Tchuligom. [07:51]
[twisti] you are all invited to help me spread retardation to all lands [07:51]
KekSi geez [07:51]
sonOfRa KekSi: was los brudi? [07:51]
[twisti] i considered using 'digger', but that looks too much like the actual english word [07:52]
KekSi stop that, please [07:52]
KekSi we're not 12 year olds [07:52]
Bombe Right, some of us are only 8! [07:52]
[twisti] sonOfRa is! [07:52]
KekSi too much of those jugendwort 2019 selections are just kanack-talk anyhow [07:53]
KekSi which i personally find shit [07:54]
[twisti] brudi, you realize that that was a joke site that i linked last week or so, right [07:54]
KekSi i'm aware of that, yes [07:54]
[twisti] just making sure [07:54]
KekSi but i still find this slang annoying as fuck [07:54]
[twisti] me too, thats why im trying to own it [07:55]
Bombe I have indeed taken some liking to the Buttergolem. [07:56]
KekSi i have a better idea: ignore it [07:56]
KekSi maybe punch some youth in the face [07:56]
KekSi again: we've been saying buttergolem for ~15 years as an insider (about the same time as the "deine mutter zieht katapulte nach isengard" jokes coming after the lord of the rings movies) [07:57]
[twisti] dont be so negative [07:58]
db embrace Buttergolem [07:58]
[twisti] i am! [07:59]
KekSi yeah, no, i'm fine with buttergolem but all this "brudi" bullshit is somehow annoying me [08:02]
[twisti] then i promise ill do it only with you from now on [08:03]
[twisti] <3 [08:03]
KekSi yeah, thanks a lot, you'll just go on /ignore tbh [08:03]
[twisti] ( [08:09]
db swolé [08:18]
whaley you summoned me? [08:40]
KekSi lmao [08:40]
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db it works [08:49]
Lengsdorfer [Lengsdorfer!~Lengsdorf@unaffiliated/lengsdorfer] has joined #java-talk [09:20]
[twisti] the fuck, for some reason netflix refuses to install on my phone now [09:34]
[twisti] it used to work just fine [09:34]
[twisti] i wonder what the hell i changed to break it [09:34]
Faux It's reminding you to buy the new iphone. [09:34]
ron morning [09:35]
fotato That green colour is nice. [09:35]
sonOfRa [twisti]: do you have a custom rom on your phone? [09:35]
[twisti] no [09:36]
[twisti] its rooted, but it used to work rooted just fine, like i said [09:36]
sonOfRa maybe they updated safetynet or something to detect more ways of rooting [09:36]
[twisti] i dont think so, my phone has been fucky for a few weeks [09:36]
[twisti] google timeline isnt working anymore either [09:37]
[twisti] i think its more likely that i did something fucky like disable the wrong thing [09:38]
[twisti] i need to replace the battery anyways, might as well reset the phone so i dont have to worry about personal data [09:39]
fotato Have you tried not fucking with your phone. [09:39]
freeone3000 That's not the Android Way. [09:39]
fotato Speaking of Netflix. Started watching Ozark last night. It?s like a finance breaking bad. [09:39]
ron so don't watch, ok. [09:40]
freeone3000 ...I don't have that on netflix. In fact, it doesn't look like I have anything on netflix. Except a new She-Ra? [09:40]
freeone3000 And there's new Archer. Okay. Wow, Netflix doesn't have anything of value. [09:40]
fotato Weird. [09:40]
puppy_za different regions have different shows due to licensing issues [09:41]
fotato Archer isn?t on USA Netflix but I am still getting the European emails and that makes me sad. [09:41]
freeone3000 puppy_za: Laws are dumb. [09:42]
puppy_za well it's capitalism [09:42]
ron fotato: archer is on hulu [09:42]
freeone3000 yeah yeah burn it all down, organize collectively, wealth redistribution leads to more harmonious society, boatsception, we've heard it all before. [09:43]
puppy_za exclusive licensing agreement means higher money for the license-r [09:43]
fotato Yeah but Hulu is lame. [09:43]
puppy_za it's now Disney for adults [09:44]
fotato Oh puppy_za is the one who thinks all credit cards are a scam right [09:44]
puppy_za no? [09:44]
puppy_za I don't dislike capitalism per se [09:44]
puppy_za but the extreme form of it is problematic. [09:44]
freeone3000 [09:46]
puppy_za heh [09:46]
fotato ah sept 11 at WTC. two checkpoints, staff-only perimeter, snipers on lower roofs [09:52]
fotato fun fun fun [09:52]
freeone3000 oh. that's today. [09:52]
fotato i'm flying tomorrow :D [09:53]
freeone3000 good choice. [09:53]
fotato lol i got told to fuck off for calling someone naive for saying they never want to live in a city that ever has this kind of security [09:56]
fotato 1) uwotm8 [09:56]
fotato 2) he lives in fucking LONDON [09:56]
freeone3000 with the ring of steel? and the basilisk guns? [09:57]
fotato basilisk guns? [09:58]
freeone3000 Fictional weapon, sorry. [09:58]
Stooge [Stooge!stooge@unaffiliated/stooge] has joined #java-talk [10:01]
freeone3000 Me: "What does this line do?" Research Director: "It determines the meaning of a sentence by taking the arithmatic mean of all words in the sentence." Me: "That doesn't seem correct." RD: "Well, it's not. We really should be taking the weighted average." Me: "Weighted on what?" RD: "Good question. There's a few papers out there, but it's inconclusive." [10:15]
freeone3000 This has been your daily "my entire field of research is bullshit" update. [10:15]
sonOfRa what is the arithmetic mean of a word anyway [10:16]
sonOfRa is a 1 and z 26 and you just... add and divide? [10:17]
sonOfRa How is that useful? [10:17]
freeone3000 no, we have the meanings of the words encoded in a 768-dimensional vector space based on their correlation to other words. [10:17]
puppy_za that sounds like machine learning [10:18]
puppy_za and computational linguistics [10:19]
freeone3000 but even if that were accurate[1], it's not clear that the arithmatic mean for "I have three bannanas" and "I have negative three bananas" accurately encompasses the negation quality of the sentence, right? all words are not equally important! [10:19]
puppy_za so, weighted average? :p [10:19]
freeone3000 right! but weighted on what? [10:19]
sonOfRa on the weight [10:20]
sonOfRa Print out the sentences [10:20]
sonOfRa Weigh them [10:20]
sonOfRa the results will be indistinguishable from most other weights you give it! [10:20]
freeone3000 you know we could actually rig up a fairly interesting proxy for that, and I'm tempted to actually do that. [10:20]
puppy_za well I hope I will get to share the fame and fortune if I come up with an idea :p [10:21]
freeone3000 sentence semantic meaning determined by physical weight (proxied by amount of pixels taken by 12-point Consolas) [10:21]
dreamreal heh [10:21]
freeone3000 1: signs point to most word embeddings being inaccurate, biased, or both! and don't do your own, it'll probably be WORSE due to smaller sample size [10:21]
dreamreal freeone3000: we run into that, too [10:21]
dreamreal "trump sucks" vs "trump sucks but..." [10:21]
freeone3000 dreamreal: You guys have a good solution yet? [10:25]
dreamreal we... do, but I don't know how it works, not being part of our NLP group [10:26]
dreamreal I think they note the additional implied content and weaken the assertion because of it [10:26]
sonOfRa if I connect my windows10 install with an MS account, I can just reinstall on a new SSD when this one is dying, right? [10:56]
Faux If Everything Goes To Plan, yes. It's very hard to tell if it has worked. [10:57]
puppy_za yes, although if your hardware hasn't changed much, then the activation will go through [10:58]
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freeone3000 Connecting it to the MSFT account overrides pretty much all local checks. [11:01]
freeone3000 Also, if you're short on licenses (for personal use), /msg me, I can just make those. [11:02]
freeone3000 (The microsoft account check essentially is: Number of registered licenses >= number of licenses in current use, and you can deactivate old computers from an online page, so the idea is you buy windows once (or never), and then you just have that license.) [11:05]
sonOfRa Yeah this is an msdnaa or whatever it's called these days windows 8.1 license upgraded to win10. The SSD seems to be dying so I gotta move [11:10]
freeone3000 yeah, once you upgraded to win10 you lost 'license provenance', you just have a windows 10 license [11:11]
Faux I believe I'm still running the Vista Beta Tester license. [11:11]
Faux I can't even remember what it was called. [11:11]
freeone3000 if you had any license to any windows product ever, including if you pirated it, the windows 10 upgrade tool would just give you a windows 10 license for the same version, and they're all just windows 10 licenses. [11:12]
sonOfRa nice [11:13]
Faux Annoyed I can't remember the license name. It was a present for having provided feedback on the Vista beta cycles. [11:13]
freeone3000 CTP? [11:14]
freeone3000 whoo boy [11:15]
freeone3000 freeone3000's title: "AB5 Passes in California, Endangering Uber" [11:15]
fotato uber just laid off like 400 people! [11:15]
fotato those poor overpaid techbros! [11:15]
freeone3000 I'd object to some part of that but I interviewed at uber and man [11:16]
freeone3000 I didn't know you could have three floors of offices and no women. [11:16]
Faux I hope something like Uber survives because fuck city taxis here. [11:16]
Faux card machine broke lol [11:16]
Faux Phone this number and wait up to 45 minutes for a taxi, lol. [11:17]
freeone3000 "guess it's free then!" [11:17]
freeone3000 (mtl taxis are run by the city) [11:17]
fotato <foterfo> techbros are solving tech's diversity problem the only way they know how - by brute force [11:17]
Faux freeone3000: It's illegal here, but they still do it. [11:18]
Faux Typo in helm chart. It has pulled down the old deployment anyway, leaving us down. [11:39]
Faux Literally the opposite of its only goal. [11:39]
Faux Also, go templates in yaml is the worst fucking idea I've ever heard of. [11:42]
freeone3000 load average: 12.38 38.22 47.36 [11:51]
freeone3000 "If you're getting a difference of 0.04 cosine self-similarity for GPU vs CPU, why don't you just precalculate the vectors on CPU?" [11:52]
Faux IT'S SLOW [11:57]
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freeone3000 also it only made the cosine self-similarity difference 0.02! [12:43]
freeone3000 My field isn't even *reliable* bullshit [12:43]
freeone3000 it's the hardware floating point rounding difference between MKL versions and it's just AUGH [12:43]
Faux Floating point errors was a surprisingly small source of error in our DETERMINISTIC machine learning stuff. [12:45]
freeone3000 we're doing retrained bert so we've got 17 layers of transformer [12:55]
enoq parted the channel: [01:27]
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Phantom parted the channel: [01:41]
freeone3000 "I have this data, but I cannot share it with you." "Why not? I'm [allowed to access it by internal policy]" "How do I share you a link into my VM?" [01:49]
freeone3000 *repeats the mantra* diversity of skills and experience are key to robust solutions. diversity of skills and experience... [01:50]
Bombe Diversity of skill does not mean one skill on opposite ends of the scale! [01:54]
freeone3000 It's important to keep a growth mindset, as every person has the ability to grow and improve if given the chance. [01:57]
Bombe That?s what they keep saying and yet I?m sure I have met people that refuse to grow. [02:06]
ron [twisti]: SO TIRED [02:07]
ron er [02:08]
ron that wasn't meant at [twisti] [02:08]
ron but generally to the channel [02:08]
ron because you should all know [02:08]
Bombe We appreciate it. [02:12]
fotato appreciate. deez. [02:19]
[twisti] geez, im coming to bed in a minute, calm down buddy [02:40]
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fotato weeee diagnosing and fixing production issues [03:06]
fotato it's like i'm an engineer or something [03:06]
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freeone3000 Bombe: Look, if I spend two hours walking someone through cloning a repository over SSH, that means we now have one more developer who, after five years, can finally clone a repository over ssh. [03:37]
Faux fotato: YAML issues?? [03:38]
Faux We were down today because the unbelievably dumb templating system generated invalid yaml and then the unbelievably dumb deployment system fucked itself and us. [03:38]
freeone3000 Our corporate environment previously was... maybe not the *most* conducive to open source? So I have to remember when someone with three words meaning "senior" in their title saying something like "Oh, UNIX! I remember that from college!" it's not a mark against them, in the larger org. [03:38]
freeone3000 Did networking. For twenty years. Maintains an intercontinental fiber-optic network with six-nine's uptime. Hasn't touched unix since college. [03:39]
Faux I say down. Only various backoffice things, which production deploys on for freshness, weren't running. Because we conflate "backoffice" and "staging". Is that just us? [03:40]
Bombe freeone3000, I?m definitely not an outreach-kind of guy, i.e. I don?t try to get other people to be developers at all costs. I also don?t have the patience to explain to someone how to clone a repo over SSH for two hours. [03:54]
Bombe I?m generally not very patient when explaining things ? which I am working on. [03:54]
Faux Wife's Just Works machine won't print this spreadsheet the right way around, even shows the correct thing in Print Preview then fucks it up entirely. [04:18]
fotato Faux: no, a machine went into a zombie state, but parallel to that grafanalabs cycled out their IPs rendering our dashboard fucked. [04:24]
fotato (running a prometheus instance in AWS with a security group defined for their IPs. which apparently change.) [04:24]
fotato so it was a fun one to run around figuring out. [04:24]
freeone3000 yep. it's surprisingly hard to get a list of IPs for a service to whitelist. [04:35]
Faux My datacentre has a block for the datacentre, so we just whitelist that. [04:35]
Faux Obviously too complicated for the colud. [04:35]
Faux COULD [04:35]
freeone3000 Faux: We offer it as [04:36]
freeone3000 freeone3000's title: "Download [Deprecating] Microsoft Azure Datacenter IP Ranges from Official Microsoft Download Center" [04:36]
freeone3000 Though it's marked [Deprecating]. Which is another one of those fun Microsoft things which means "It's good, but we might change it in five years" [04:37]
[twisti] better than googles "tons of people love it? who cares, we are shutting it down" [04:48]
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db morning [10:33]