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« 2019-11-07


2019-11-09 »

Nick Message Date
shicks255_ [shicks255_!~quassel@2600:1700:2428:20b0:6834:b35a:b2ab:3cd5] has joined #java-talk [12:15]
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puppy_za morning [01:05]
db morning [01:17]
puppy_za hi db [01:20]
db sighs [01:21]
puppy_za what's wrong [01:22]
db not sure where to start [01:23]
puppy_za do most of your days start like that? :p [01:25]
db the initial problem is that I'm writing an SQL database setup script which should generate some data from existing data, like transform some data and put it in a different table. now that would be easy with INSERT INTO ... SELECT right .. but I have to generate the primary key column, and some clever person at this company decided years ago that using SEQUENCES for PKs is just not complicated enough. [01:25]
db start? it's friday afternoon. soon I will drown my misery in beer. [01:25]
puppy_za oh I forgot you're in another zone [01:25]
db so, I can't use a sequence but I have to use a function instead, something_incindex, and that function uses DML to look up, increment and store a new key value [01:26]
db and guess what.. you can't call DML in a SELECT statement. [01:26]
puppy_za oh [01:26]
db so I can't INSERT INTO ... SELECT [01:27]
puppy_za so you have to do 2 queries [01:27]
db how so? I mean.. wenn a for loop maybe [01:28]
db *well [01:28]
puppy_za one query to create an index and another to insert? [01:28]
db call me dumb but I don't get it, so the thing is I can select all data I need in one query, and this needs to end up in the other table, plus with one newly generated PK per column [01:30]
db how exactly would you do that with two separate queries? [01:30]
db err, per row [01:30]
db not per column [01:30]
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puppy_za oh, I meant, each entry needs two queries - one to get the PK then another insert it? [01:33]
puppy_za anyway it seems more work than necessary [01:34]
db yeah I'll need a for loop [01:34]
db or something [01:34]
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db I write a for loop in pl/sql about once every other year [01:43]
db I have to learn it from scratch every time [01:43]
puppy_za it's fine if it's not a regular thing [01:48]
puppy_za keep only important things in your mental cache [01:49]
db it worked [01:56]
puppy_za good good [02:03]
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KekSi 'morning [04:14]
puppy_za hi KekSi [04:30]
selckin so good at procastinating that i open a new terminal, ssh & tmux attach, to see irc detach in the other open terminal [05:05]
Faux D [05:05]
selckin system android weather app now shows funny animal videos [05:23]
selckin as if the privacy issue wasn't enough [05:23]
selckin s/android/samsung/ [05:24]
Faux Sick. [05:27]
Faux I use the darksky clock. [05:27]
selckin i just can't even fanthom how that gets made [05:30]
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sonOfRa oooh, Iron Maiden in Bremen next year. I wanna go. [05:46]
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sonOfRa man, those poor cops. [06:33]
sonOfRa "Now that weed is legal, we can't arrest people for having weed, and that's making our jobs so hard" [06:34]
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selckin but our quotas! [06:35]
selckin now we have to find actual criminals [06:35]
fotato Poorly written article [06:36]
fotato I also seriously doubt police have quotas. [06:36]
selckin it was a good one, perfect to get clicks, and posted here, author definitly getting a raise [06:36]
fotato I believe the actual concern is that they?re smelling it at traffic stops. [06:37]
fotato Ie is the driver impaired? How do we check that? [06:37]
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selckin or is the officer impaired from the smoke cloud coming out of the car window </next level> [07:04]
selckin have a line of officiers outside of colleges, and after 5 cars you arrest the officier in front of you and its your turn [07:05]
acuzio morning ladies [07:06]
acuzio Hows the world treating you all ? [07:07]
selckin my central heating won't fire up and everyone i've called said they are too busy to come by [07:08]
selckin and monday is a public holiday, so contemplating showing in the freezing cold thusday to go to the office and finding someone later [07:09]
selckin *showering [07:09]
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waz woah! [07:14]
waz Acuzio! [07:14]
acuzio waz: [07:14]
Faux omg [07:14]
acuzio Yes Faux [07:15]
waz Morning just started, slept 9 hours. Glad my flight isn't until noon [07:15]
Faux Did you get preggers? [07:15]
waz how are you? [07:15]
acuzio waz: all good , hows the world treating you ? Wheres you ? [07:15]
waz Going well. In NYC [07:16]
waz was going to meet fotato this week but he went drinking instead [07:16]
waz so just met up with cheeser [07:16]
acuzio Faux: Not that i am aware of - unless i am in the 0.001% of cases where the birth control doesnt work [07:16]
acuzio waz: I was there last week - , the cold has started creeping in [07:17]
waz 35f this morning [07:18]
fotato waz: sorry. I am a hopeless alcoholic. [07:24]
waz in good company [07:27]
acuzio aye [07:27]
acuzio Faux: are you now officially betrothed ? [07:28]
fotato Heh. [07:28]
fotato Betrothed is the thing before marriage. [07:28]
Faux acuzio: Yes, I have a ring on it. Didn't see you at my wedding? Shame. [07:29]
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acuzio well i am glad for you mate and hopefully the sex hasnt stopped [07:33]
fotato Faux: which wedding [07:34]
Faux Any of them! [07:34]
acuzio heh [07:34]
acuzio I should go to the lounge - Power on the laptop about to run off [07:35]
fotato I?m flying today too. [07:35]
fotato Running around doing errands instead of working. [07:36]
acuzio waz: wait, cheeser is in NYC ? Am i thinking of someone else , wasnt he in Sweden working for a media company? [07:37]
waz for a bit, the company closed the office in sweden [07:37]
waz he went to work for Redhat and moved back here [07:37]
acuzio You mean IBM [07:37]
waz it's oddly separate still [07:38]
waz no telling how many years it'll last though [07:38]
acuzio It is indeed - [07:38]
fotato I think they?re generally quite aware of the impression people have of their culture [07:38]
fotato Afaik their last few acquisitions have been largely hands off culture wise. [07:39]
scav MORNING [07:39]
acuzio FWIW , i work very closely with IBM and there is a saying that RH will change IBM , if Gini remains on board till the end of that [07:39]
acuzio ( IBM is one of our largest partners ) [07:39]
acuzio And conversely we work with the Openshift team as well - ., so right now at least the culture of the RH team has the upper hand [07:42]
fotato What brings you back acuzio [07:42]
acuzio Right - time to get some power on this . [07:42]
acuzio scav: Morning [07:42]
scav Roughly two more weeks, and my bank gig is over! [07:43]
fotato \o/ [07:44]
fotato Figured out how you?re gonna fuck the world next? [07:44]
scav I'll apply for a job with you guys. [07:44]
fotato We?re hiring! You?ll probably have to move to Berlin tho [07:45]
scav But for now, I have a 6 months contract coming up with a broadcaster / streamer so back to media again. [07:45]
fotato Nice. [07:45]
scav Yeah, so I am not going to work for you guys then :( [07:46]
fotato You sound so disappointed [07:48]
fotato Nick cave and the bad seeds released a new album today. [07:49]
scav No, I just wish (sometimes) that I did not have a family and that I could freely move for opportunities. [07:50]
selckin man nuts are crazy expensive [07:58]
scav DEEZ NUTS? [07:59]
fotato I mean he did say ?man nuts? so I guess o. [07:59]
puppy_za who is selling man nuts? [08:02]
selckin delhaize [08:02]
fotato In terms of nutritional density I wonder how they fare like calories per dollar. [08:05]
fotato They?re pretty healthy in general. [08:05]
scav nuts are awesome [08:13]
sonOfRa Yup, I've switched almost completely from buying potato chips or similar snacks to mostly nuts [08:25]
sonOfRa More expensive, but also very awesome and I've been getting less fat without even doing any more sports than before [08:26]
fotato Careful on portion size [08:27]
fotato They are high in calories and it?s easy to eat a shitload. [08:28]
sonOfRa Yeah [08:28]
fotato But it looks like you?ve figured that out lol [08:28]
sonOfRa Mostly because chips are also really high in calories and it's also easy to eat a shitload [08:29]
fotato Heheh. [08:30]
sonOfRa Oh dear. Bavarian parliament has just decided to fund a study on how to combat MDR bacteria. [08:39]
sonOfRa With homeopathy [08:39]
sonOfRa 400k? [08:39]
selckin just needs some p hacking [08:40]
fotato I mean [08:47]
puppy_za homeopathy? [08:47]
puppy_za is going to sell some expensive tap water [08:48]
fotato It?s a fairly low cost to shut up people who say ?the govt doesn?t take us seriously? [08:48]
puppy_za it's not a good idea to support fake medicine. [08:48]
fotato Don?t mistake this for support [08:50]
fotato Spending money to shut an argument down is perfectly valid. [08:50]
sonOfRa This is support [08:50]
sonOfRa They fought for this very hard to get "alternative medicine" researched [08:50]
sonOfRa This is 100% support for homeopathy, and not an attempt to shut down an argument [08:50]
fotato Hrm [08:51]
puppy_za in term of research, I fully agree with you [08:51]
sonOfRa homeopathy is relatively popular in germany, simply because the homeopathy lobby got laws passed that mean homeopathic medicine doesn't has to work to be classified as medicine [08:52]
sonOfRa So drug stores simply sell them like *any other medicine*, except "more natural" [08:52]
puppy_za but politically, this is a play to gain publicity. [08:52]
sonOfRa Like, germany literally has laws that exempt homeopathic "medicine" from having to go through clinical trials [08:52]
selckin but what if homeopathy is a different name for placebos and those scientificaly work </hide> [08:53]
puppy_za it opens the door for fraud [08:53]
Bombe It?s weird that the nazis in Bavaria actually voted against this; usually they?re all very much into this crap. [08:54]
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puppy_za wait what [08:54]
puppy_za can't compute [08:54]
sonOfRa Bombe: AfD is relatively "against" homeopathy. They're not for a ban on krankenkassen taking over cost for it, but they're also not esoterics [08:56]
sonOfRa Esoterics are mostly in the greens these days [08:56]
sonOfRa And well, CSU, apparently. [08:56]
ron morning [08:57]
puppy_za We need to learn the lessons from the US on how this "natural" trend led to an anti-vax movement and other anti-science stances [08:58]
sonOfRa sup ronno [08:59]
waz anti-vax is only a us thing? [09:01]
ron definitely not [09:02]
sonOfRa It's a very general anti-scientifc thing. Lots of people world wide are really anti-sciencce [09:02]
puppy_za I am not saying it's the only place (or even the starting place), but it has reached a dangerous proportion [09:03]
selckin marketing often abuse science claims, which has eroded peoples trust [09:03]
ron not just marketing. media too. [09:04]
puppy_za *cough*foxnew*cough* [09:05]
sonOfRa Media makes it worse by presenting false balances between things [09:05]
selckin don't think i believe anything anymore, so unless i can test it myself .. [09:05]
sonOfRa They'll make an article about homeopathy vs real medicine and then present it as if they're both valid theories of medical science, and some people believe one and some people believe the other, while science is extremely clear [09:05]
ron you should totally test anti vax [09:05]
ron sonOfRa: not only that. they'll take a latest study about something, and extract one specific point and make it a headline, even though without understanding the entire article that point is pretty much irrelevant. [09:06]
sonOfRa Yeah, that is also a problem, but science communicators are doing a decent job in the last few years trying to combat that. [09:07]
sonOfRa But then again, there's [09:07]
ron oh that's funny [09:08]
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sonOfRa It's also really hard to reason with those people in general, because they can produce bullshit much faster than people can refute it [09:11]
selckin and they never have doubts [09:12]
selckin and the world is so complex you can't get a real awnser on what is a healthy diet & things like that, so after a few years of hearing conflicting info on everything that affects your daily life, how can you not question everything [09:14]
Bombe sonOfRa, well, the CSU is full of crap, the last years have shown that very clearly. [09:15]
selckin ? is <reply>TB! [09:25]
selckin OK, selckin. [09:25]
selckin ? [09:25]
selckin TB! [09:25]
selckin forget ? [09:26]
selckin I forgot about ?, selckin. [09:26]
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Faux Gonna buy myself a personal license for JIRA because work are useless, wish me luck. [09:42]
selckin why! [09:43]
Faux Run tests against its api and it's easier to buy a license than to try and fix work's deployment to talk to their cloud one. [09:45]
selckin hmm cheap [09:48]
puppy_za at some stage in life, you just throw money at a problem to make it go away [09:51]
fotato it's literally what money is for [09:54]
Faux Indeed. [09:56]
scav i wonder why most libraries or frameworks feel the best way to learn is to "To keep this guide simple..."? I don't think a whole lot of people generally solve trivial problems, so perhaps not pointing out what features exists beyond "hello world" is not the best idea? [10:11]
scav I mean, it's not like stepping through every line in your library is not how I wanted to spend my evening, but what ever. [10:12]
surial Is anyone here responsible for an end-user login scheme (vs. a corporate one, e.g. one based on SAML or LDAP), think of or Have you put any consideration into the security of it all, and specifically, how you slow down guess attempts? [10:31]
surial cuz, well, a talk on WebAssembly has given me an idea, but whilst I'm arrogant enough to know that my idea beats and facebook, it doesn't hurt to at least check, right? [10:32]
sonOfRa Court update: Court wrote today that since my devices have been returned, the complaint really should be done now. And their files (that we're not allowed to look at) state that they *did* have probably cause to find stuff in my apartment, so the search probably wasn't illegal anyway. [10:32]
sonOfRa Lawyer response: Nah. Complaint isn't done. [10:33]
surial sonOfRa: I missed the complaint bit. Is it more specific than a general 'what the fuck how is it okay to take ALLLLLL my shit, for weeks, with no recompense or consideration for my situation, based solely on a 'witness warrant'? [10:34]
fotato why is aws such a fucking bitch to work with sometimes [10:34]
surial and, did you instruct your lawyer to continue the fight and are you paying for the time, or is (s)he just motivated? [10:34]
surial scav: no, it's the forward motion and agile thing. [10:35]
surial scav: Writing documentation, _ESPECIALLY_ documentation that is not specific to a unit (so, tutorials and user guides, that kind of documentation, vs. javadoc-for-this-one-method kinda docs), kinda locks down design. If you have tutorials and user guides, and you refactor how something works, your commit should also patch those things. And it isn't even things you can test. [10:36]
surial It's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy, of course: Because developers all over just go: FUck the docs, this trivial hello world example is FIIINE! ? there are, in my experience, few to no tools here. You can't mark a section of the docs with some annotation indicating: "This section is based on how method X, Y, and Z work; any commit that therefore touches X/Y/Z, ESPECIALLY if they change signatures or unit documentation [10:37]
surial of those exposed code bits, needs to get a commit hook error or warning that they really ought to mess with this section as well'. [10:37]
surial scav: if you want a nice anecdote to fully cover how this works: For MONTHS I was debating with the scala team whether XML literals were a good idea, and whether fold-left, a (to me, anyway, what with it involving the word 'accumulator', which is computer-speak for 'multicore? Bwahaha nope!') dated concept as well ? ought to be imported by default. Eventually the debate ended with: Oh. Oooh. Oops. Well, the big book has [10:39]
surial gone to the printer so now we can't change any of that shit. We shall simply learn to live with it, and given that we are programmers we shall now defend to the death the wisdom of htese choices. [10:39]
surial that was back when I thought scala was a good idea. i.e. a really, REALLY, incredibly long time ago. [10:39]
sonOfRa surial: multiple points in the complaint. 1: Formal problems with the warrant. 2. There's no *facts* presented that justify the search, only "suspicions", which the supreme court ruled illegal 3. There's requirements for warrants that require *specific things* to be listed in the warrants. "Just everything" is not specific, and therefore not legal. 4. The warrant doesn't fit the "Verhältnismäßigkeitsprinzip", which states 4 things: [10:41]
sonOfRa a) legitimate cause (that's given) b) The measure needs to be able to actually produce results (this is not given, and they could have known this by researching how tox works) c) The measure is required and can not be replaced by a less intrusive measure (not given, they could have *asked me* how tox works) d) "no-overkill". The disadvantages created to the suspect of a search are not allowed to significantly outweigh the potential benefits [10:41]
sonOfRa (arguable, but not given in this case, since multiple of my constitutional rights have been violated) [10:41]
sonOfRa surial: and yes, I'll be paying for it, but it's not going to cost me unreasonable amounts because lawyer is also interested. [10:43]
sonOfRa Probably helps that he's an oldschool punk that isn't very fond of the police in general ;) [10:44]
surial sounds like a pretty good case. [10:56]
surial I like this. Fight the man and all that. Kudos to you.. and your lawyer. [10:56]
surial 'The disadvantages created to the suspect of a search are not allowed to significantly outweigh the potential benefits' <-- this is just solid civics, and when existing laws that weren't written with a changed society in mind get inevitably twisted one way or another (this is just as bad as an ubereats not paying for the social safety net; also abusing rules that no longer make sense if interpreted to the letter instead of [10:58]
surial in spirit) ? it's a lot better if that gets rectified, with new laws or solid precedent, ASAP, and if you're doing your part to correct this wrong, that's commendable. [10:58]
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acuzio i see that surial remains the same [02:36]
surial acuzio: an ethical genius? [02:36]
surial Amen, brother. [02:36]
acuzio <facepalm emoji> [02:36]
fotato lol [02:50]
ron its alive? [02:52]
ron er, it's. whatever. [02:53]
fotato well it aint pretty but i managed to convince aws to each enough dicks for it to start working [02:53]
fotato s/each/eat/ [02:53]
ron \o/ [02:54]
Faux `npm install` is being non-deterministic across multiple runs. [02:55]
fotato literally everything about aws ecs and cloudmap can go eat a dick [03:07]
ron your dick? [03:08]
fotato sure why not [03:11]
tang^ they probably have sharp teeth [03:12]
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tang^ hahaha [03:18]
tang^ cheeser's comment in java came just as somebody was pointing out the raging wildfires in australia [03:18]
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tang^ [06:53]
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