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« 2020-08-13

2020-08-14

2020-08-15 »

Nick Message Date
db [db!uid18678@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eprszatfxnnjlvvv] has joined #java-talk [12:10]
KekSi [KekSi!~KekSi@x4db401f4.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #java-talk [01:47]
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scav i don't really mind - fortnite is a pile of shit, epic is a pile of shit and i am pretty sure the world is better off without it easily accessible [02:22]
scav Did anyone see this yesterday? That top comment is seriously some of the funniest (and childish) shit i've read in like forever [02:26]
scav https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/i8rbel/opossum_vibes/ [02:26]
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[twisti] Faux: can you recommend something to work with node/react code ? all the eclipse things seem to be shit [04:51]
Faux I'm using (commercial) intellij because I'm lazy. Half of work use vscode but it doesn't have any features. [04:52]
[twisti] yeah i checked out vscode, coming from eclipse, and was shocked that people are apparently hyping a text editor [04:53]
[twisti] any idea if the intellij CE is worth checking out for node/react ? [04:54]
[twisti] no way my bosses are shelling out for the commercial license [04:54]
Faux I suspect it's fine for node. No idea if the react stuff is included. [04:54]
Faux I pay personally; it's about the same price as Netflix. [04:55]
[twisti] they have a subscription model now ? [04:55]
Faux Yep, only. [04:56]
Faux Like Photoshop. [04:56]
[twisti] oh, thats neat [04:56]
[twisti] i might consider that then; shelling out a four digit sum for something i might end up not using after a week sucks [04:56]
puppy_za I use webstorm, it has React and Angular support [04:56]
puppy_za (and Vue) [04:56]
puppy_za (yes it's from Jetbrains) [04:57]
sonOfRa employer is seriously not paying *for IDEs*? [04:57]
sonOfRa What the fuck? [04:57]
puppy_za that's not unique :p [04:57]
sonOfRa I mean I got pissed for my employer considering tools like snyk too expensive, but... fucking IDEs? [04:57]
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Faux Make sure you look at the personal prices, TWISTIJFCTABCOMPLETEINHIPSTERCLIENT. [04:58]
sonOfRa Imagine a fucking tailor telling his employees "fancy scissors? Nah man. that's too expensive" [04:58]
sonOfRa Faux: I am so pleased that in textual on osx, twi completes to [twisti] [04:58]
[twisti] sonOfRa: everyone else here uses the free ones, so our bosses got used to it [04:58]
sonOfRa It is so pleasant. [04:58]
puppy_za I even had to fight my last two employers to let me Intellij / PyCharm / Webstorm that I pay for [04:58]
Faux sonOfRa: Works in real weechat but not hipster weechat. [04:58]
sonOfRa ah [04:59]
puppy_za some employers just stand in the way for better products [04:59]
puppy_za some employers just stand in the way of better products [04:59]
freeone3000 My employer doesn't pay for IDEs. [06:59]
freeone3000 We're all supposed to use Visual Studio Enterprise and *like* it. [06:59]
db does VSE support java? [07:05]
MikeBux freeone3000, Visual Studio Express? [07:07]
puppy_za VS Code does? [07:11]
MikeBux I would rather use eclipse or netbeans [07:14]
db I was thinking, because Eclipse and IntelliJ evidently suck balls, maybe there is a solution to our misery that we just might have missed. [07:16]
sonOfRa freeone3000: to be fair, you have a competing product [07:26]
sonOfRa Most companies don't. [07:26]
MikeBux i never would ask which is the best Java IDE :) everybody has a different taste ;) [07:31]
puppy_za I like Intellij [07:33]
MikeBux Well yeah it is really nice [07:34]
db MikeBux: no need to ask. people will tell you anyway [07:46]
MikeBux true [07:47]
waz ide war [07:48]
waz emacs is shit, see http://xkcd.com/378/ for further details. [07:48]
MikeBux aaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwww [07:50]
[twisti] eclipse is really nice actually [07:51]
[twisti] just, like, for java. not javascript or php. [07:52]
waz Used eclipse for many years, finally tried Intellij and haven't looked back [07:52]
waz both are quite nice though [07:52]
freeone3000 IntelliJ is... quite good, actually. [07:54]
freeone3000 Visual Studio (actual) hasn't supported Java since 2005 (thanks lawsuit!). Visual Studio Code support is Eclipse-on-the-backend, VSCode on the frontend, which isn't bad tbh [07:55]
puppy_za I am glad no one said Vim yet [07:57]
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freeone3000 vim sort of works for c and c++, because it's such a mess nothing can reasonably handle it without subsuming your entire code lifecycle into its gaping maw (hi, visual studio!), so vim is just as good as anything else. [07:58]
MikeBux puppy_za, oh well there are worse tools, when i started with my first PC editing bat files with edlin ... [07:58]
puppy_za I am trying to remember what text-based editor I used in the MS-DOS day [07:59]
freeone3000 used *vim*. [08:00]
puppy_za *gasp* [08:00]
MikeBux well i used qEdit on msdos [08:03]
MikeBux because the tools that came with my version were horrible [08:04]
freeone3000 DHL express just gave me the world's fastest shipping. Next-day ground from Seattle to Quebec. [08:47]
db ground. [09:00]
db what does that mean? apparently not "not air" [09:00]
ron morning [09:21]
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freeone3000 db, yep. we can't ship lithium-ion batteries by air! by policy. therefore, we had a ground shipment. [09:42]
freeone3000 fastest ground shipment I've ever seen. simply amazing how quickly they did it. [09:42]
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freeone3000 Ah, the sound of roofing <3 [10:10]
freeone3000 good news is my roof is fixed!!! bad news: *bang bang bang bang bang bang stomp stomp stomp stomp bang bang bang...* [10:10]
db freeone3000: so they took your package and then maintained a speed of roughly 200km/h until they delivered it? [10:13]
whaley whaley [10:19]
whaley http://i.imgur.com/LIeOOTh.jpg [10:19]
freeone3000 db, I mean, according to physics, that's the only way of doing it. [10:20]
db yes. but given the lack of high speed rail networks or Autobahn in that region, it seems unlikely [10:21]
sonOfRa weee, next week off [10:55]
ron weee [10:55]
sonOfRa Time to do absolutely fuck all because pandemic \o/ [10:55]
ron maybe you can spend the time to learn english!! [10:56]
sonOfRa absolutely not [10:58]
freeone3000 could spend it building a useful software component for your new shiny hardware [11:05]
Faux We're fucked by the law change, so I have a relaxing fortnight of pacifying the wife. [11:10]
tang^ [tang^!~tang^@2604:3d09:47c:f970:64db:7c1b:3ec6:db9f] has joined #java-talk [11:12]
db which law change? [11:12]
db I'm in a hotel and turned on the TV and it has BBC, ans they said something about UK closing the border to France [11:13]
db they were talking about some sort of virus infection on allmost all channels. it was kinda strange so I turned it off again. [11:17]
Faux Yeah, arrivals to the UK from France must not leave their accomodation for 14 days. [11:17]
Faux I'm in France and going to the UK on Monday so this sucks. [11:17]
tang^ oh boy [11:18]
db at least you can just go. If I were to enter my country of residence from outside, I'd habe to apply for a "certificate of entry" at an embassy, provide a medical certificate, insurance (ok got that anyway), get a flight, and then stay two weeks in state quarantine (in designated, specially equipped hotels) [11:27]
db *have to [11:29]
freeone3000 35% of America will refuse to take a coronavirus vaccine. Oh, joy. [11:52]
tang^ I've always been of the opinion that this world could use a thinning of the herds [11:52]
freeone3000 we don't need an engineered plague to kill republicans, just a plague? [11:53]
db tang^: thinning will happen in one way or another [11:54]
db 65% vaccination is probably enough to keep infections low so the 35% will be able to say "see? it was all for nothing" [11:54]
tang^ unfortunately [11:56]
ricky_clarkson but the 65% and 35% won't be evenly spread, so it'll be self-genocide by the right-wingers at least where they're the most concentrated. [12:13]
db (un)fortunately, Covid isn't *that* deadly [12:16]
tang^ in and of itself, no [12:22]
tang^ many deaths happen when the hospitals get overwhelmed with cases and can't provide respirators to those who need them [12:23]
scav BUT BILL GATES [01:11]
ricky_clarkson He predicted this, but not its interactions with Trump and Jared. [01:12]
scav i have it on good authority that he is part of a conspiracy [01:12]
ricky_clarkson I don't think that's good authority. [01:12]
scav he want to lower the world population and use the vaccine to control the population [01:12]
scav but dozens of youtube channels say the same thing, making it factual! [01:13]
scav i need to find that video, it is hilarious [01:13]
ricky_clarkson I won't watch it, fwiw. I see idiocy without actively clicking on it. [01:14]
ricky_clarkson except r/idiotsincars, that's entertaining idiocy. [01:14]
scav only thing r/idiotsincars does is confirming that most americans are shit drivers and that the training is on pair with the training police receives [01:24]
freeone3000 no, police have to attend an academy for weeks to learn how to shoot people [01:30]
freeone3000 my driving training in Texas was a multiple-choice test where I answered questions until I got seven right. [01:30]
scav you do have a point, their ability to primarily shot black in the heat of the moment does hint at a pretty decent level of training [01:31]
freeone3000 neither of those were for comedic effect! police academy focuses on arrest procedure, takedown methods, and self-defense strategies, and has a week of range time for pistol training [01:32]
ricky_clarkson scav: Many posts are from the US, but there are a lot from other places too. Russia and the other 'similar' countries feature a lot. [01:34]
ricky_clarkson scav: I think seeing those has helped my own driving to some extent. I'm not so sure about getting a dashcam though as it'll probably lead me to drive too close to an idiot for the benefit of the video. [01:35]
scav freeone3000: are you telling me that in texas you don't have to drive an actual car as part of the training? because if yes, then okay [01:35]
ricky_clarkson scav: In the US you don't need to do any training. I believe that's the same in most places. [01:35]
freeone3000 scav, You don't actually need any training at all. The evaluation involves a multiple choice test and a six-month grace period; if you don't crash in the six months, you're good. [01:36]
ricky_clarkson scav: You probably should, to have a good chance of passing, but there's no regulation. [01:36]
scav that explains why my experience driving in the US was horrible. people have no idea how lanes works [01:36]
scav this is news to me, i assumed every developed country had rules and regulations in place that were actually sane [01:36]
scav e.g. obligatory practical test and training [01:37]
freeone3000 Both bits vary widely by state. Normally, when you move to a new state, you can just exchange your old state's for your new state's. Nobody else accepts Texas driving permits in exchange. That's fine by Texas. [01:37]
ricky_clarkson Practical test, sure. [01:37]
ricky_clarkson State laws also vary a lot so sometimes you might just be wrong and the locals are driving "fine" [01:37]
freeone3000 Oh yeah like 40+ states require a practical test [01:37]
ricky_clarkson e.g., staying in your lane during a turn sounds like a good idea but I believe isn't actually a requirement. [01:38]
freeone3000 I had to redo my practical when I moved to Ontario. It... wasn't terribly hard. [01:38]
ricky_clarkson Mexico and India don't need a practical test to my knowledge. [01:38]
scav no, i mean which lanes are for speeding and which lines are for slow driving and how to change lanes and not be a dick in the outer most left lane [01:38]
freeone3000 Oh, there are no rules for that in America. [01:38]
freeone3000 All lanes are for driving :) [01:38]
ricky_clarkson scav: In most states I believe you can overtake on either side, unlike Europe. [01:39]
scav but there were signs [01:39]
freeone3000 Sign overrides the law, for the duration of the sign. [01:39]
ricky_clarkson so that makes the fast lane more of a convention. Sometimes there are signs saying slower traffic stay right. [01:39]
freeone3000 Ontario, thankfully, only allows you to pass on the left. Nothing requires you to move to the right, but it's, y'know, generally a good idea. Makes traffic flow much smoother. I miss that when I go back to Texas. [01:40]
freeone3000 hasn't done highway driving in Quebec. [01:40]
ricky_clarkson It must be confusing for foreign drivers in the UK, small things like motorways and country roads never having speed limit signs can't help. [01:40]
scav i have primarily driven in Florida and I am pretty sure the law there states left lanes yield to faster vehicles [01:40]
freeone3000 Haha Quebec doesn't do those either. [01:40]
scav except, most people did not seem to give a shit [01:41]
ricky_clarkson there's a circle with a line through that means 'national speed limit', so you have to know what that is. [01:41]
freeone3000 Canada just has standard speed limits - 40km/h for business districts, 30 km/h for residential, 20 km/h for zone d'escolar, 80 km/h for highway, 90 km/h for freeway. [01:41]
freeone3000 If there's not a sign, you just follow the one for the type of area you're in! Easy peasy. [01:41]
Faux l'escobar [01:42]
scav i see you have the same speed limits we enjoy in norway [01:42]
freeone3000 oh, everyone speeds pretty much all the time. [01:43]
freeone3000 let me find the fine chart [01:43]
Faux 30km/h is painful for me, we drive at 48km/h in residential areas and 32km/h in school zones. [01:43]
freeone3000 https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.wheels.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Speed-Limits-Ontario.jpg [01:44]
scav so 120km/h = $95 under which speed limit? any? [01:45]
Faux Any, including school zones. [01:45]
freeone3000 100km/h which is the usual for highways (as opposed to the standard, which is different) [01:45]
freeone3000 The speed limit in Montreal is mostly academic, tbh. [01:46]
scav wow [01:46]
scav thats like $1000 here, roughly :p [01:46]
freeone3000 now that's $95 CAD, so it's about $75 US, or in layman's terms "probably worth it" [01:46]
scav okay, mine was USD [01:46]
scav Up to and including 5 km/t over the speed limit: NOK 800 [01:47]
scav Up to and including 35 km/t over the speed limit: NOK 10,200 [01:47]
scav oh, you said 100km/h... then it's just 6400NOK :D [01:48]
ricky_clarkson You're actually supposed to look at how close the lampposts are to each other to derive the speed limit in the UK [01:48]
ricky_clarkson afaik [01:48]
Faux In theory. In practice we don't trust anyone and have signs fucking everywhere. [01:49]
scav we look at the yellow stripe in the middle, but only "50km/h or lower" or "60km/h or higher" [01:49]
Faux The lamp post thing is supposed to be a hint as to whether it's a "built up area" or not. [01:49]
Faux I live in a city so in practice the speed limit is about 5mph everywhere, enforced by traffic. [01:50]
scav but then again, what do we know, having 80km/h on roads where basically nobody can get past each other and 30km/h for a 3 lanes highway [01:50]
freeone3000 ricky_clarkson, what do you do if there aren't any? [01:50]
ricky_clarkson Right, many country roads are scary speeds in the UK, and very windy. [01:50]
ricky_clarkson freeone3000: Go at the speed of light. [01:50]
ricky_clarkson Simple division. [01:50]
freeone3000 country roads? can't hit anybody if there's nobody to hit *forehead* [01:51]
ricky_clarkson freeone3000: There are national speed limits that would apply. [01:51]
tang^ freeone3000: those are some weird limits [01:51]
freeone3000 tang^, Mostly academic! Montreal, you won't ever hit them except for the highway one sometimes and then only if you're on your way somewhere more civilized. [01:52]
ricky_clarkson I forget them, haven't driven much in the UK as I left it 9 years ago and was a new driver, but something like 50mph for a single lane each side [01:52]
ricky_clarkson 60mph for two lanes each side, 70 for 3, and subtract 10 if you're a goods vehicle etc [01:52]
tang^ Alberta is usually 50km for business/residental, 30km for school/playgrounds, 80km for freeways and 100km for two lane highways, 110km for divided highways [01:52]
scav you need math to drive in the UK? [01:53]
freeone3000 you guys get 110km!? [01:53]
tang^ national parks do 90kmh [01:53]
tang^ yes we get 110 [01:53]
freeone3000 I've literally never seen 110km posted [01:53]
ricky_clarkson I've seen 130km/h in Argentina. [01:53]
tang^ we have a lot more open space out west, though [01:53]
freeone3000 Oh, in Texas I've seen 90 *mph* [01:53]
ricky_clarkson How you reach that speed I've no idea, with everyone cutting everyone else up all the time [01:53]
ricky_clarkson the lane line is for the middle of your car [01:54]
tang^ that's what the horns on the front of the caddy is for [01:54]
tang^ knocking slowpokes out of the way [01:54]
freeone3000 130 is actually fairly comfortable in post-2010 models, assuming you have the displacement for it [01:54]
freeone3000 like. a smartcar won't get there. but a Corolla should be able to handle it fine? [01:55]
tang^ I saw a Scion Qi the other day with a pickup sized guard bar on the front [01:56]
ricky_clarkson I was doing 85 in a 70 in the UK and got flashed by a police car, nearly shat myself [01:56]
ricky_clarkson They just wanted to get past [01:56]
tang^ when I'm on the transcanada doing 110, I regularly see the mounties passing me by [01:57]
Diablo-D3 heh [01:57]
ricky_clarkson Brian Goetz on the amber mailing list (new Java features..): "The EE folks (remember EE?) had a compelling-enough use case for being..." [01:58]
ricky_clarkson Is EE that dead? [01:58]
Diablo-D3 ricky_clarkson: extra dead [01:58]
Diablo-D3 it went to the apache graveyard [01:58]
ricky_clarkson fark [01:58]
tang^ it's now JakartaEE [01:58]
Diablo-D3 well, tbf, *new* code shouldnt be written in it [01:58]
Diablo-D3 it should only exist to rescue existing enterprise shit no one wants to rewrite [01:58]
ricky_clarkson Not sure which is worse, Apache, Eclipse Consortium, or sourceforge[t] [01:58]
Diablo-D3 legacy only life support [01:58]
Diablo-D3 hah [01:58]
tang^ I do see new Wildfly releases espousing the latest JakartaEE support [01:59]
Diablo-D3 tang^: wildfly is really the only remaining javaee container too [01:59]
tang^ and since it's the base for JBoss, plenty of enterprise environments for it [01:59]
Diablo-D3 oracle killed theirs, oracle killed sun's, that became payara [02:01]
Diablo-D3 I guess payara is still alive [02:01]
tang^ geez. yeah, glassfish is jee6 [02:02]
Diablo-D3 WAS rebased onto something else? I forget [02:02]
Diablo-D3 not a lot of people used WAS anyways [02:02]
ricky_clarkson Wow, I had no idea. I thought it was just out of fashion, not dead. [02:08]
ricky_clarkson What do the enterprises use now, some Spring thing? [02:08]
tang^ spring is the thing [02:12]
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Diablo-D3 ricky_clarkson: nodejs =/ [02:15]
tang^^ [tang^^!~tang^@2604:3d09:47c:f970:64db:7c1b:3ec6:db9f] has joined #java-talk [02:36]
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freeone3000 node, mostly. [02:43]
freeone3000 *we* use absurd amounts of node. And we made C#! [02:44]
ron "we" [02:44]
freeone3000 me and the people I work with. we. [02:45]
ron *you* made C#? [02:45]
freeone3000 I have contributed partially to the runtime for it! [02:46]
ron umm [02:46]
Diablo-D3 freeone3000: I want to hate typescript :( [02:49]
tang^^ keen [03:20]
ron sup tang^ [03:31]
sonOfRa oooh, the US army is streaming on twitch again! [03:31]
tang^ my food satisfaction level [03:31]
sonOfRa They haven't banned the phrase "war crime" yet, so everyone is asking the dude what his favourite US war crime is! [03:32]
tang^ is that one committed by the US or committed in the US? [03:32]
sonOfRa By, I think [03:32]
ron why are people stupid [03:34]
freeone3000 sonOfRa, There was actually a court case. They *cannot* ban the phrase "war crime". [03:35]
sonOfRa D [03:35]
freeone3000 ron, why the fuck does the us army have an esports team [03:37]
sonOfRa For recruiting? [03:37]
ron twitch is not just esports? [03:37]
sonOfRa they're called usarmyesports! [03:38]
sonOfRa It's in the name! [03:38]
ron usarmyeasports? [03:38]
sonOfRa Us Arm Yes Ports [03:38]
ron whoosh [03:38]
sonOfRa (shouldn't that be the navy's esports channel)? [03:38]
ron why shouldn't they have an esports team? [03:39]
freeone3000 ron, This is true. However, the US Army, US Navy, and US Air Force all have esports teams. [03:39]
ron why not? [03:40]
freeone3000 ron, Well, in the words of the US Marine Corps, "This is due in part to the belief that the brand and issues associated with combat are too serious to be 'gamified' in a responsible manner." [03:40]
ron ok? [03:40]
tang^ [tang^!~tang^@2604:3d09:47c:f970:64db:7c1b:3ec6:db9f] has joined #java-talk [03:40]
freeone3000 And furthermore, that they shouldn't use games as a recruitment tool, especially targeting viewers under 18. And that recruitment should obviously be branded as such. [03:41]
ron who said it's for recruitment? [03:41]
ron (other than sonOfRa and who made him an expert) [03:42]
freeone3000 The US Army Recruitment Division. [03:42]
ron where do they say that? [03:42]
freeone3000 ron, https://recruiting.army.mil/army_esports/ Here. [03:42]
freeone3000 freeone3000's title: "U.S. Army Esports Team" [03:42]
ron that's not recruitment [03:43]
freeone3000 recruiting.army.mil is not recruitment, or the US Army Recruitment Command is not in charge of recruitment? [03:44]
ron that page says nothing about the esports team being there for recruitment. [03:44]
ron a marketing tool? yes. [03:45]
freeone3000 right, they're part of the Marketing and Engagement Brigade, under US Army Recruitment Command. ...They're obviously for recruitment purposes. [03:45]
ron that could just be a structural thing [03:45]
ron I actually think it's a great idea. [03:46]
freeone3000 Non-recruitment organizations, such as bands, are usually embedded as virtual squadrons at the division or corps level. [03:46]
freeone3000 These... are recruitment tools. [03:46]
ron no, these are marketing tools. [03:47]
freeone3000 I'd have expected you to argue that they weren't marketing directly to minors, which is actually the more contentious claim. [03:47]
ron which may result in recruitment, but at the end of the day, it's marketing. [03:47]
ron I don't see any problem with marketing to minors. [03:48]
freeone3000 It's... actually illegal. There's a law. [03:48]
ron marketing to minors is illegal? [03:48]
tang^ marketing army careers to minors is illegal. [03:49]
freeone3000 Having a US Army attempt recruitment of a minor is illegal. Which is why it's not recruitment, it's marketing. It's only illegal to market to minors if they're under 13. [03:49]
ron but it's not marketing army careers. [03:49]
ron and it's not trying to recruit them. [03:49]
freeone3000 so they're... what, trying to improve *public opinion* of the army? [03:50]
ron yes. [03:50]
tang^ unpossible [03:50]
ron "They have shown Army leaders how gaming can help us connect to young people and show them a side of Soldiers they may not expect. This initiative will help make our Soldiers more visible and relatable to today's youth. " [03:50]
ron and I feel that's perfectly valid. [03:50]
freeone3000 I feel that's inherently skeevy. [03:51]
ron that's your prerogative. [03:51]
tang^ yeah! [03:51]
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scav Sounds like a clever way to circumvent their own laws. [04:46]
scav Since Call of Duty decided not to glorify war with their latest instalment, clearly armed forces now have to do it on their own. [04:47]
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scav So does this mean Electron is going to die? [06:16]
scav https://medium.com/flutter/announcing-flutter-linux-alpha-with-canonical-19eb824590a9 [06:16]
scav scav's title: "Canonical enables Linux desktop app support with Flutter | by Chris Sells | Flutter | Jul, 2020 | Medium" [06:16]
Faux no [06:22]
Faux Ubuntu are ironically pretty cursed on desktop. [06:22]
ricky_clarkson Flutter seems ok, I tried the web version out a while back. [06:23]
Faux I wonder if the wife's iPhone has never been below 50% battery, it seems incapable of reporting charge or discharge. It's like six months old. [06:25]
Faux https://twitter.com/cperciva/status/1294325582067449857?s=69 [06:38]
Faux Faux's title: "Colin Percival on Twitter: "EC2 R5 instances were announced in July 2018 and are built around Intel CPUs from 2017. At what point do they cease to qualify as "next-generation" and "high-performance"? https://twitter.com/dynamodb/status/12..." [06:38]
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tang^ oh goody, I have to swap out a reverse proxy engine on a Friday evening [07:19]
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