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« 2020-09-14


2020-09-16 »

Nick Message Date
k5__ [k5__!~k5@2001:16b8:2d04:a700:25f4:312c:8985:3e06] has joined #java-talk [02:36]
MikeBux [MikeBux!] has joined #java-talk [02:58]
Matthijs [Matthijs!~quassel@unaffiliated/matthijs] has joined #java-talk [02:59]
sonOfRa you can buy oem licenses on ebay for tree fiddy [03:09]
db oh I found an OEM license key already, thanks. didn't get to installing it yet, though [03:14]
Faux If you log in to an MS account on a laptop with a license it will "probably" CLOUD your license and then you will just be able to use it on the new machine. [03:17]
Faux "probably" [03:17]
Faux (But buying a license is way easier.) [03:18]
selckin if its a laptop it probably has a license key in hardware it will magicly find [03:19]
Faux grafana can't render a decimal (0->1) as a percentage without decimals (0.2 -> 20%). It can do "20.000%", but if you ask for 0 decimals it renders either "0%" or "100%". [03:26]
sonOfRa Oh yeah grafana is fun. I'm too dumb to use it though. We have a prometheus metric that basically exports a COUNT * WHERE foo [03:35]
sonOfRa Problem is we have more than one node of the service that exposes that metric, so it shows twice as many as it should [03:36]
sonOfRa Averaging it feels wrong [03:36]
Faux What is it? A gauge (an observation of an external value?)? A count (the number of requests seen by the thing exposing the metric?)? [03:42]
selckin max()? [03:43]
[twisti] sonOfRa: different nodes should have different 'instance' values and thus should produce two different metrics [03:51]
Faux Sounds like he has that. [03:51]
Faux But that's not good for graphing. [03:51]
[twisti] hard to tell what he should do with it then. really depends on why hes graphing it in the first place [03:53]
sonOfRa It's a gauge [03:54]
Faux That isn't really enough information to have a discussion about it. I mean, your options are "aggregate it" or "aggregate it". There's a number of aggregate functions, but afaik most cases need one of the simple ones (avg/min/max/sum(rate)). [03:58]
sonOfRa fair [04:09]
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[twisti] do you even WANT to aggregate it ? cpu cores for example are often displayed as distinct graphs, sometimes independent, sometimes overlaid, sometimes stacked [04:30]
Faux He said it was multiple observations of the same value. [04:32]
Faux (A really common thing.) [04:33]
k5__ [k5__!~k5@2001:16b8:2d04:a700:25f4:312c:8985:3e06] has joined #java-talk [04:53]
[twisti] but different nodes [05:15]
sonOfRa of the service, not of the database they're running the COUNT on [05:15]
sonOfRa probably not something the service should measure [05:15]
[twisti] do different nodes report the same underlying value ? [05:16]
sonOfRa I'd be extremely surprised if they didn't [05:16]
sonOfRa It's not a dynamic query, and they talk to the same database [05:17]
Faux They provide observations of the same value at different times. [05:17]
[twisti] no, i mean, do they report an internal value that may differ, or are they themselves looking at the same source for the value to report (which it sounds like) [05:17]
Faux Two GPS receivers in a car report the current speed at 15s intervals. [05:17]
Faux What is the speed? [05:17]
[twisti] two GPS receivers in a car report how many sats they can see [05:17]
Faux Yup, different problem that the one sonOfRa has. [05:18]
sonOfRa [twisti]: they are running a COUNT * WHERE <constant expression here> on the same database. [05:18]
[twisti] which you just guessed, as far as i can tell [05:18]
Faux stares at [twisti]. [05:18]
[twisti] then it sounds like it really doesnt matter - pick one, pick the max, pick avg, pick min/max/avg, display both [05:19]
[twisti] surial: [05:22]
selckin still get over that promethehus pull don't push is the wrong way to go [05:50]
Faux Normally the concern there is that you have data which shouldn't be in prometheus, and prometheus doesn't give a shit about your usecase, but people pretend it's fine anyway. [05:51]
Faux WE DO THIS AT WORK [05:51]
selckin i might have made a proxy, where our software open a connection to a gateway, which is then polled by prometheus and forwarded to our software, since you know have to get into the firewalled network [05:53]
Faux /o\ [05:53]
Faux Although more /o\ at network security inconvenience causing you to work, than at the solution, I think. [05:53]
selckin it was push on opentsdb or some other shit that wasn't maintainable, converted to prom [05:54]
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Samian hello [06:13]
selckin quick hide [06:13]
Samian man last time I wrote java code was over 10 years ago in college [06:13]
Samian I'm ashamed [06:13]
Samian I'm a c, c++, python dude [06:13]
Samian something about those languages speak to me [06:13]
Samian maybe because it's really easy to be procedural [06:13]
Samian it's easy to have a procedural style [06:14]
selckin i hate when you mail support of a payed product and they reply with a workaround [06:15]
selckin i know i can work around it, we're payign you to fix it stupid [06:15]
Samian selckin yeah that can suck [06:19]
Samian selckin that reminds me of when I ask someone a question and instead of answering it they say I should do something else [06:20]
Samian "Can you help me fix the toilet?" "That house is trash. Sell it and buy another one." [06:20]
Samian "Can you help me find the bug in my program?" "Why are you even making that program? Make different one" [06:21]
selckin that can just mean 'no, i've moved past that', i'm not helping you with python 1.0 or c89, use something modern if you want my help [06:22]
Faux On with google support again about why they can't keep a box up, including all of the monitoring going blank or zero when it is down for hours. "You must be overloading the cpu or the memory." All their graphs for CPU or memory during the outage read as zero. Giggling. [06:44]
selckin if even google has figured out monitoring yet, what hope is there for us [06:46]
selckin *hasn't [06:46]
selckin why does intellij seperately ask for fields ot include in equals and fields to include in hashcode [06:56]
Faux 'cos some guy once wanted them to be different! [06:56]
Faux More serious answer.. it's not insane to have a non-hashable object in equality, but not in hashcode, I guess. (equality implies hashcode equality) [06:57]
selckin got an example? can't wrap my head around it, perf optimisation i guess? [06:58]
Faux I can't think of a good example that isn't just pointless performance abuse, no. [07:00]
sonOfRa Hm, is there a decent plugin for IDEA that integrates gitlab code reviews into idea? [07:01]
sonOfRa Ah, there seems to be a paid one [07:03]
sonOfRa Paid is always good! [07:03]
puppy_za lol [07:04]
[twisti] so this tool that synchronizes like 20mb of raw data and which ran in under a minute last time i checked two years ago now takes ~ 1 1/2 hours now [07:05]
[twisti] i kind of want to yell at my coworker, but i also dont want to end up having to fix it or, God beware, find out that it actually does shit complex enough to warrant that [07:06]
selckin did it move it to k8n with cpu & memory limits [07:06]
[twisti] it did not [07:06]
[twisti] its adorable that you think we are anywhere close to that [07:07]
[twisti] it runs on a single core windows 7 VM [07:07]
selckin i don't want to be there [07:07]
[twisti] work wise i kinda dont either [07:07]
[twisti] but the company social aspects are nice, so idk [07:07]
MikeBux [twisti], is it still 20MB of raw data? [07:10]
Faux D [07:10]
Faux DOCKER [07:12]
[twisti] MikeBux: of course [07:18]
Faux Why does ADD --chown literally not work, but COPY --chown works fine? I bet I don't even want to know the answer. [07:18]
selckin puts money on adding copy to not break add compat [07:19]
Faux --chown is significantly newer than the split, I think. [07:21]
sonOfRa haha, another state consumer protection agency is going after a german lemonade maker for "deceiving customers" again [08:00]
selckin not made form lemons? [08:02]
sonOfRa Not enough sugar. [08:02]
MikeBux lol [08:02]
MikeBux they want sugar reduced i thought [08:03]
sonOfRa They do [08:03]
sonOfRa But the regulatory terms say that to be "lemonade", the sugar content has to be in a certain range [08:04]
sonOfRa They could call themselves "sugar with juice and water", but not lemonade. [08:04]
sonOfRa Or they could add more sugar, and then they're allowed to call themselves lemonade! [08:04]
sonOfRa 7% sugar by weight is the minimum, and they only have 6%, hence, not a lemonade! [08:07]
MikeBux oh okay lol [08:07]
selckin well on the one hand i can respect that [08:08]
selckin good that someone is doing quality control, if this is worst they found [08:08]
sonOfRa Last year, the hamburg state consumer protection agency went "of well fuck it you're allowed to do this, this is dumb" [08:08]
sonOfRa But since it's not federal, this year another consumer protection agency is on the case to stop this horrible fraud of customers! [08:09]
MikeBux hehe [08:10]
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Samian I'm getting tired of baristas asking me where I'm going, what I've done today, or what I will do today. If they want to be friendly, a simple having a good day? works, and I don't feel like I'm being investigated in an interrogation room [08:51]
Samian *won't feel [08:52]
[twisti] maybe try not wilfully misinterpreting other peoples behaviour because you happen to be in a shitty mood [09:05]
selckin disney+ has the dvd extras [09:06]
[twisti] or alternatively try starting a movement to establish by comittee an ethics codex to govern non-judgmental non-offensive small-talk options for employees working with customers [09:07]
k5__ [k5__!~k5@2001:16b8:2d04:a700:25f4:312c:8985:3e06] has joined #java-talk [09:39]
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freeone3000 I'm actually all for food identity standards, in general. This one seems a bit strict, but you can't be lemonade with 1% sugar! there's a threshold somewhere. [09:54]
freeone3000 (it's also interesting that the ingredients don't need to be listed in terms of descending quantity, so "juice with water and sugar" [09:55]
sonOfRa They need to be listed in the ingredient list like that yes [09:55]
sonOfRa But the product name is separate [09:55]
[efwe] [[efwe]!] has joined #java-talk [09:56]
ron morning [09:56]
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freeone3000 Product name doesn't follow the same guidelines? In identity standards such as shredded cheese, (d)(2)(iii) , they're still listed in descending order. [09:57]
freeone3000 freeone3000's title: "CFR - Code of Federal Regulations Title 21" [09:57]
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db Wurstwasser. [10:03]
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selckin why they so good at hiding screws, can't figure out how to open my speaker [10:27]
Faux not user serviceable please buy another [10:31]
selckin found one on ebay, but it has uk power cable, seems risky, and locally only another full surround set, asking for 200? crazy mofo, was 700 5 years ago [10:32]
Faux No idea how old my speakers are, at least ten years. [10:34]
selckin left a message if he wants to lower the price, doubt anyone will buy it [10:35]
selckin hammer time to pry this one open [10:36]
selckin we have found screws breaking of the front! [10:39]
freeone3000 they can't still be directly hooked up to mains, right? like modern speakers have to be electrically isolated from the grid [10:44]
selckin removed all the screws, nothing came lose [10:44]
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selckin fuck it, anyone got a good surround sound system to recommend [10:51]
ron nature [10:51]
freeone3000 not sonos, they brick their hardware. [10:59]
fovid-19 not anymore! [11:15]
fovid-19 okay, how is the FTC not _all_over_ the nvidiARM buy? [11:16]
freeone3000 because currently US regulatory agencies exist to promote the president's personal agenda instead of promoting general welfare? [11:19]
fovid-19 oh right. [11:24]
tang^ [tang^!~tang^@2604:3d09:47c:f970:6116:a38c:95bd:ff2a] has joined #java-talk [11:31]
selckin oh god audio from tv is bad [11:37]
fovid-19 it really us [11:47]
fovid-19 i have a sonos playbar [11:48]
fovid-19 it's TOSLINK only but you can get good used deals on it [11:48]
fovid-19 i like it. [11:48]
fovid-19 Philips used to have good audio from their TVs but i think they have exited the market. [11:48]
freeone3000 I have a samsung TV with actual good audio now. [11:50]
freeone3000 I also own a JVC soundbar for use with my $100 best buy special TV [11:50]
dreamreal I use studio monitors for sound from my family room's TV [11:57]
dreamreal it's only about 25w but that's... PLENTY [11:57]
ron yawn [12:02]
ron [12:02]
ron ron's title: "Cameron Hunter on Twitter: "In video meetings it's a hassle to unmute just to say one word especially if someone else is speaking. I created a video lens that uses hand gestures to show comic-book style messages instead. So far it's been p..." [12:02]
dreamreal [12:05]
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freeone3000 YESS time-blocking for lunch paid off [12:15]
freeone3000 I have 15 minutes I can use to browse the internet between meetings [12:15]
ricky_clarkson Live the dream. [12:21]
ricky_clarkson for another 9 minutes anyway [12:21]
fovid-19 if only acuzio were still here so he could talk abou this five digit setup for listening to 64kbps zoom meetings. [12:38]
tang^ I have five digits [12:38]
fovid-19 can i have them [12:39]
tang^ right in the mouth [12:39]
fovid-19 lol [12:46]
freeone3000 oh, good, our area has gone from vigiliance to prealert. this doesn't mean anything, in fact none of the levels mean anything. [01:14]
ron just for fuck-it-all, I'm going to email HR. yay me. [01:18]
fovid-19 [01:20]
fovid-19 fovid-19's title: "Disney+ on Twitter: ""Wherever I go, he goes." Watch the brand new trailer for #TheMandalorian and start streaming the new season Oct. 30, only on #DisneyPlus."" [01:20]
ron so glad I don't follow the star wars world. [01:23]
fovid-19 weird thing to be glad about but ok [01:25]
fovid-19 oooh, slack update [01:25]
fovid-19 lets see what they broke [01:25]
whaley ron shot first [01:41]
k5__ [k5__!~k5@2001:16b8:2d04:a700:25f4:312c:8985:3e06] has joined #java-talk [01:48]
tang^ fancy. 10x faster ML core on new iPad [01:54]
ron current mood [01:57]
ron ron's title: "Kelis - Caught Out There (Official Music Video) - YouTube" [01:57]
freeone3000 coreML means that it's still gonna be a pain [01:58]
ron I really want this day to be over [02:00]
tang^ it's 5 o'clock somewhere [02:01]
acidjnk_new [acidjnk_new!] has joined #java-talk [02:01]
ron too bad I have more meetings [02:01]
sonOfRa drunk meeting time! [02:02]
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MikeBux sonOfRa, hehe well drinks are good [02:06]
ron I don't really drink [02:13]
whaley reconsider [02:13]
ron no [02:13]
ron I should leave the tech world. [02:16]
whaley no [02:16]
ron I really should. [02:16]
whaley will you become a deadlift coach? [02:17]
ron maybe. [02:17]
sonOfRa that's a pretty cool music video for a sabaton song :D [02:50]
sonOfRa sonOfRa's title: "SABATON - The Future Of Warfare (Building Blocks Video)" [02:50]
fovid-19 how fucking obnoxious was that apple watch ad? [02:53]
freeone3000 It's a chunk of rubber! [02:54]
freeone3000 I also appreciate that the 2019 model of apple watch enabled an always-on display so that your watch always showed the time. [02:55]
selckin anything good announced [02:57]
tang^ yes [02:57]
fovid-19 "it took us 5 years, but, yes, it's a watch now' [03:05]
fovid-19 selckin: a unified sub for all their subs, a new ipad that looks a lot like the last ipad, a new watch that looks a lot like the last watch, some new straps and COLOURS, and an actually pretty decent looking fitness service. [03:05]
fovid-19 oh, and a new old watch which is a mix of new and old and not just a cheaper old watch. [03:06]
fovid-19 did i miss anything? [03:06]
whaley did they announce an iDildo? [03:06]
tang^ that was at CES [03:07]
fovid-19 anything is an iDildo if your'e iBrave enough. [03:07]
whaley incredible [03:08]
tang^ teledildonics is a growing industry [03:08]
freeone3000 the ipad internals are actually kind of cool, and it'd be a nifty app platform if it wasn't so locked down [03:08]
fovid-19 they'll announce and ipad pro pro running macOS soon. [03:10]
fovid-19 on apple silicon. [03:10]
fovid-19 MacPad Pro [03:10]
freeone3000 I think that might be another year or two; one of my friends just got his Transition Kit [03:15]
freeone3000 (*snerk*) [03:16]
fovid-19 <transphobic joke> [03:19]
freeone3000 All those people who said that the apple transition kit would be an iPad running OSX? You're wrong. It's an APPLE TV running OSX. [03:32]
freeone3000 I actually, legit love that people are telling me to schedule and run meetings on topics, and I do the seek-outs, and then the people actually in charge contact each other. [03:40]
freeone3000 Like all I did was put the people in a room with an agenda, take notes, and then write down action items at the end. [03:40]
waz I always read transition kit was a mac mini [03:58]
freeone3000 mac mini case. [04:02]
waz sure, with an a12 or something along those lines [04:02]
freeone3000 benchmarks are showing something much slower [04:03]
waz yeah, only 4 cores [04:03]
waz a12 has 8 [04:03]
waz The machines seem to be achieving around 800 on the Geekbench v5 single core test, and around 2600 on multi-core. [04:05]
waz For comparison, the entry-level $999 2020 MacBook Air achieves a Geekbench score of 1005 on single core and ~2000 on multi-core. [04:05]
waz This means Apple?s ARM test hardware is benchmarking, running non-natively via Rosetta, about the same as a 2020 MacBook Air. [04:05]
freeone3000 I appreciate that they're still calling it Rosetta instead of Rosetta 2 or something else. It's still super cool. [04:05]
freeone3000 the processor in the transition kit could cost more than the macbook air's 10th gen i3. [04:14]
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ron fucks [04:33]
ron [04:33]
waz ron did you get rid of acuzio? [04:34]
ron I did nothing to him [04:35]
ron this time [04:35]
waz acuzio disappears and surial goes mute. Strange times [04:35]
ron well, we know who to blame for surial [04:35]
ron "blame" [04:36]
puppy_za maybe surial is now focusing on his life instead of helping random ungrateful online chatters [04:42]
ron yeah, that's just it. [04:42]
Faux I lowered my resolution to 720p and turned the texture detail to low, you can't read the text, but at least the game is playable now. SPENDING ON GRAPHICS CARDS HAS BEEN SUSPENDED [04:52]
freeone3000 Just get a 3080 like the rest of us [04:52]
ron "rest of us" [04:53]
Faux Spent all of my money on babies. [04:53]
Faux I wouldn't buy a 3080 anyway because I like silence and it is not possible to silently dissipate 4JW or whatever that thing needs. [04:53]
ron which game Faux [04:54]
Faux I have been playing HARDSPACE SHIPBREAKER, which is graphically demanding only because it was written by someone in Unity in a weekend, not because it is very pretyt. [04:55]
freeone3000 You're thinking the 3090. The 3080 is a completely reasonable 250W card. [04:57]
Faux Ah! [04:58]
Faux I am buying AMD anyway, in the hope that the linux support is worth it. [04:58]
freeone3000 what are you looking for out of the amd linux driver? [04:58]
Faux For example, I would like it to send dpms commands to more than one monitor, which the Nvidia driver cannot be bothered with. [05:02]
Faux I would also like to try Wayland and have a cursor, a reasonably insane request I understand. [05:02]
Faux Note that the exact same Nvidia driver manages this fine on windows. [05:03]
freeone3000 the cursor? yes. dpms? no. [05:04]
Faux I am reasonably sure that dpms worked twenty years ago, so it should be achievable today on Linux. [05:04]
sonOfRa Hm, I might have to buy a new PSU I guess? 650W is going to be cutting it rather close for the 3080 [05:14]
ron or don' [05:15]
ron t buyy a new graphics card [05:15]
sonOfRa Does not compute [05:18]
ron remember when you were a poor student? [05:19]
sonOfRa Yes [05:19]
ron tthat. [05:19]
sonOfRa I got nothing to spend money on. We were gonna go on vacation this year but that's cancelled so \_(?)_/ [05:19]
sonOfRa And it's not like I'm throwing the old one out, gf can use an upgrade from her 1060! [05:20]
ron or you can save up for a rainy day or a bigger purchase when the time comes [05:20]
sonOfRa Oh I am doing that [05:21]
sonOfRa I still live in my really cheap apartment, so the cost of living in relation to my income is just very low currently [05:21]
fovid-19 you could buy some absurdly expensive couches instead [05:25]
sonOfRa no [05:25]
fovid-19 why not it's fun [05:25]
sonOfRa We have 2 cats [05:25]
freeone3000 aka "couches" [05:25]
ron why wouldd anyone do that [05:25]
fovid-19 you get to wait months for them too. [05:25]
ron oh, hire an assassin to kill them [05:26]
sonOfRa the cats? [05:26]
ron duh [05:26]
sonOfRa But they're so cute :( [05:27]
ron impossible [05:27]
dreamreal sonOfRa: they just do that so they can murder you first [05:27]
dreamreal I love cats [05:27]
dreamreal but they're pure and awfully cute balls of pure evil [05:27]
sonOfRa tell me that's not incredibly cute [05:27]
sonOfRa sonOfRa's title: "Shared album - Simon Levermann - Google Photos" [05:27]
ron pure evil [05:27]
dreamreal no way, that's awesome. And you know what that cat was thinking? It was thinking "hmm, barbeque sauce, or ... I dunno, just raw. Either way. I'm waiting for you to die." [05:28]
sonOfRa Oh absolutely [05:28]
sonOfRa "Slain by a cute furball". That's how we all wanna go! [05:28]
dreamreal I came close [05:29]
dreamreal It wasn't pleasant, I still only have about 85-90% range of motion in my left hand [05:29]
sonOfRa Yeah, cat bites are nasty :( [05:29]
ron ???? [05:29]
dreamreal if you know what to look for you can feel the scar tissue going up my arm on the inside [05:30]
sonOfRa And then there's this idiot, who is *really* good at hiding! [05:30]
sonOfRa sonOfRa's title: "Shared album - Simon Levermann - Google Photos" [05:30]
dreamreal last time I donated blood, the .. .whatever they are called felt it, was like "... what" [05:30]
sonOfRa jesus [05:30]
ron that's your cat's name? [05:31]
sonOfRa yes, both of them are called jesus. For maximum confusion [05:32]
dreamreal (I have them take blood from that arm, since it affects you for a few hours, and I'm like 'well it's my weaker arm now anyway') [05:32]
dreamreal she was checking the veins because I was informing her that my veins roll somewhat and she was experienced enough to tell something was ... not quite normal [05:33]
dreamreal (When I was young I told a nurse that my veins roll and she was like "pshaw! nothing to it" and ended up having to stick me five or six times. By the end she was in tears.) [05:34]
ron finally the meeting is over [05:41]
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fovid-19 Yay, now you can complain about the next thing [06:41]
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tang^ hmm, neat. docker desktop for mac just asked to update... new features include deploying directly to Azure ACI [11:58]