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« 2019-12-05


2019-12-07 »

Nick Message Date
puppy_za [puppy_za!uid277586@gateway/web/] has joined #java-talk [01:01]
puppy_za morning [01:11]
efwe good morning [01:31]
puppy_za hi efwe [01:37]
KekSi 'morning [01:39]
puppy_za hi KekSi [01:42]
TomTom [TomTom!uid45892@gateway/web/] has joined #java-talk [02:12]
efwe good morning TomTom :) [02:35]
dodobrain__ o/ [03:03]
puppy_za hi dodobrain__ [03:09]
dodobrain__ late today again [03:27]
dodobrain__ anyway, i'm gonna go home now.. need some food and sleep [03:28]
puppy_za bye dodobrain__ [03:29]
Matthijs [Matthijs!~quassel@unaffiliated/matthijs] has joined #java-talk [03:36]
KidBeta [KidBeta!~Kidbeta@hpavc/kidbeta] has joined #java-talk [03:45]
selckin tried to give away a 300? lego set for free even offered free delivery, picked someone that was interested and now they ghosted me trying o get an address [03:48]
selckin to lazy to try the others, gonna just trash it [03:48]
Stummi understandable, but still a waste :( [03:50]
sonOfRa good morning [04:00]
sonOfRa selckin: any goodwill or similar stores nearby? [04:00]
sonOfRa They'll be super happy to have something to give away for kids [04:00]
sonOfRa Local church or something, if giving to churches doesn't offend your sensibilities [04:01]
sonOfRa The revert war continues! [04:09]
sonOfRa sonOfRa's title: "repo/gentoo.git - Official Gentoo ebuild repository" [04:09]
acidjnk_new [acidjnk_new!] has joined #java-talk [04:10]
Stummi sonOfRa, oh, what is this? Some drama I missed? [04:13]
sonOfRa Stummi: eh, nothing major; basically a gentoo dev masked (for deletion) a bunch of python 2.7 packages. Another dev said "hey maybe just masking them all is bad, let's undo this and discuss" [04:13]
sonOfRa then "no we're masking this, we can unmask single packages again if they're needed" [04:13]
efwe selckin: many different random parts? are you in europe? i'll give you 50+postage if i like the pictures (have a 7 year old daughter) [04:13]
sonOfRa And then "noooo unmask them all, mask only ones on demand" [04:14]
sonOfRa And then "okay we're masking them all, if you wanna pick up packages yourself and maintain them, go ahead and unmask, but don't revert this entirely again" [04:14]
selckin efwe: dc batman tumbler car, but the point was to get rid of it fast and without effort, going to post office it too much :) [04:14]
efwe selckin: ah garage-sale. oki. [04:15]
selckin but like 10+ ppl replied around where i life, they'd want it, then first 2 even don't reply after trying to get place/time to dropoff [04:16]
Stummi selckin, just put it out with a "free" sign? [04:17]
Stummi like, in front of your house [04:17]
Stummi "free, complete, lego toy" or something like this [04:18]
selckin [04:21]
selckin selckin's title: "Lukas Eder on Twitter: "I take your "code is documentation", and I raise you "documentation is code""" [04:21]
Faux Classic. [04:22]
efwe selckin: hmm. cannot reproduce right away in idea. [04:27]
Faux It works; it's specified to work like that on purpose. [04:28]
Faux 2010 Eclipse had issues, so it's reasonable that IDEA is still behind. [04:29]
sonOfRa Alright so right now the games we have for the switch are pokemon and botw. I kinda wanna play both at the same time *right now* [04:30]
sonOfRa Decisions. [04:30]
selckin botw, This is the way. [04:33]
Samian time to get down a and boogi [04:40]
Samian does the boogidance [04:40]
sonOfRa Uh, how exactly do accounts on the switch work? If I buy a digital game, other people who have registered accounts on the device can play that game, right? [04:50]
fotato Yeah [05:40]
fotato User profiles aren?t linked [05:40]
fotato To a Nintendo account [05:40]
fotato Not in a hard way [05:40]
fotato Accounts are more directly linked to a device. [05:41]
fotato It gets a little more complicated if you add a second switch [05:43]
Faux Sure am glad this DRM is bringing value to my life. [05:43]
fotato Sure I?ll go play some of the best games ever made on Linux instead oh wait [05:44]
Faux Pretty sure most GOTYs get linux releases these days. [05:44]
fotato Do. Uh. [05:45]
fotato Do you even understand Nintendo [05:45]
selckin it's always funny to see ppl that clip (aka pirate) car race clips for example, and then get mad when someone else uses/post their clips, and they start watermarking and protecting them [05:45]
Faux But, I wasn't claiming the switch doesn't have cool games. I was claiming that the digital ownership model sounds worse than buying physical cartridges, which is sad. [05:45]
fotato It?s fine [05:45]
fotato Multiple users can share digital purchases and you can link accounts to >1 device [05:46]
fotato It?s not actively hostile. [05:46]
sonOfRa Yeah, it's just one device anyhow in this case, and I'm going to be buying physical cartridges except where I can't [05:46]
sonOfRa Apparently Cadence of Hyrule doesn't exist on cartridge [05:46]
fotato It does not. [05:46]
sonOfRa All other games I actually want, *do* exist on cartridge [05:46]
fotato Hollow knight? [05:47]
fotato Wait that got a physical release [05:47]
fotato Stardew calley except that?s on pc and maybe better there [05:47]
sonOfRa I mean, I probably don't know about many of the games I'll eventually want to play, but what I want *so far* exists on cartridge [05:48]
fotato sonOfRa, Faux: [05:55]
Lengsdorfer [Lengsdorfer!~Lengsdorf@unaffiliated/lengsdorfer] has joined #java-talk [06:34]
ankon [ankon!] has joined #java-talk [06:45]
selckin so sick of non technical ppl passing messages along [07:01]
selckin gonna hide a secret email in the docs to contact the "devs" directly and get shit done [07:01]
selckin should be fixed in an hour, but no spend 2 weeks emailing each other trying to shift blame for billing and shitigsgiqhs?q?fgaodfghodqfxh?dsnc [07:03]
fotato That is called niche carving. [07:05]
ankon parted the channel: [07:14]
Bombe Great, company wants to force their own root CA upon everyone? how do I tell the network team that that is a really bad idea if the CA key is not protected by anything but security by obscurity? [07:21]
selckin tel management the network team can record the conversation with their mistresses [07:23]
selckin or even better, start reading their emails [07:23]
selckin get a raise [07:23]
fotato Violating the computer misuse act without express written authorisation is a fast track to getting fired, prosecuted and imprisoned. [07:25]
fotato Do not do the second thing. [07:25]
selckin ofc not [07:26]
waz [waz!~waz@pdpc/supporter/active/waz] has joined #java-talk [07:29]
whaley [whaley!] has joined #java-talk [07:48]
enoq [enoq!~enoq@2a02:8388:6a87:b080:649f:9456:c1b1:28e4] has joined #java-talk [08:00]
KekSi unless you're willing to go all the way and blackmail them (but then you better find proper leverage or your ass is going to prison for a longer while) [08:13]
KekSi lol [08:13]
selckin was more to hint that you can use that to scare them into denying it [08:17]
Stummi surial, catch NPE? are you serious? [08:17]
surial Why not? [08:18]
surial you're not getting the NLP/analysis vibe, are you? [08:18]
Stummi this seems a bit wrong to me. [08:18]
surial The job is to parse a bunch of human-written text and do a reasonable but by no means perfect job of extracting every date mentioned in the text. [08:18]
surial If the typer of the text typoes, 'sokay, then you won't find it, it's fine. [08:18]
surial Those kinds of jobs tend to call for a more cavalier approach to exception catching. Missing one is, more or less by way of specification, okay. [08:19]
surial so, given you already have a catch block.. why not? I can see doing catch (Exception e) { /* I do'nt know WHAT went wrong, but just continuing is better than crashing out */ } here, even. The problem then is a legit bug preventing you from parsing a legit date, but you don't write code that does NLP without some tests. [08:19]
Stummi hm, okay [08:20]
Stummi NLP seems a complete different beast of programming, isn't it? [08:20]
surial it's shades of grey. [08:20]
surial The interesting frontline of NLP is all very fancy with more than a little undertone of AI. But 'grep dates out of a bunch of text' is also NLP. Just a very simple form of it. [08:21]
Stummi I think I would still just check for null before calling the parser, instead of passing it and catching NPE [08:22]
yottabyte [yottabyte!uid195082@gateway/web/] has joined #java-talk [08:58]
selckin dreamreal: wtf [10:36]
dreamreal what? [10:36]
selckin you don't see that cheeser mostly tells ppl to shut up & go away and rarely contirbutes [10:37]
selckin and surial is super helpfull [10:37]
selckin he used a swear word oh no [10:37]
selckin djeeses [10:37]
dreamreal it's not the swearing [10:37]
surial So waht was it then? [10:39]
surial in that precise transaction, with jinblack. [10:39]
surial If you want to turn this into a 'cheeser was justified', then justify it. Or acknowledge he's being a dictatorial ass. [10:39]
surial which, hey. He can be. Short of taking it up with freenode central that's how it works. [10:40]
dreamreal It was the tone taken, which generated a "tone it down" which turned into an adversarial thing with cheeser [10:41]
surial which tone? [10:41]
dreamreal you tend to amplify conversations to 11 almost immediately - not immediately, but almost - and it turns caustic really early [10:41]
surial selckin suggested it was the 'FUCK NO', which, sure, I can see how one would take that as a trigger to go: Huh, mabbe tone it down a tad? That'd be understandable. But you said (and cheeser said) it wasn't that. [10:42]
dreamreal the "you're wrong, there's no way to do this, everything is broken, everyone is wrong" tone [10:42]
surial dreamreal: okay, so it's not this conversation at all, but history? [10:42]
dreamreal history does play strongly into it, yes [10:42]
surial Seems like a weird time to ban me for it, in the middle of helping someone who's asking and debating the finer points of nice stream usage with matsugaro. [10:42]
surial dreamreal: what the fuck? I was engaging in that whilst giving context (such as: memory model of data depends on things like garbage collector), YOU were engaging in the same thing without context. [10:43]
dreamreal the conversation with matsurago isn't relevant. The ops regularly discuss how you interact, for better or for worse: you're a bright guy and you DO contribute, and thus you have advocates for your presence in the channel. Who those advocates are I will leave to you to guess. [10:43]
selckin strong opinion that are often stated in a bit of adversarial way i can see that, but his contributions more then offset that [10:43]
surial Given that you started down that path, I assumed the ops were fine with it. [10:43]
dreamreal I was engaging in what same things without context? [10:43]
surial Kick yourself for a while as well if this is the reason for the kick. [10:43]
dreamreal I was trying to figure out ways and contexts in which I could help him, since I've done memory access from java apps before. [10:44]
surial dreamreal: in the (to you, off the mark as far as tone goes) thing of: Don't do it that way, that is the wrong way. [10:44]
surial [16:25:38] <dreamreal> if it's stripped to have no reflection, it's not java [10:44]
surial versus... jinblack: To answer your specific question directly: Not really, no. The furthest you can possibly get is to use JNI bridging so that you can run C/assembler code within the VM, as well as a few things built on top of this such as JNA. There's also com.sun.misc.Unsafe which has some crazy shit you can use. Note that csmUnsafe loses methods every release. [10:44]
dreamreal I don't think "don't do it that way" is the wrong thing to say. And you do tend to get personal really quickly; gee, you've called me a hypocrite and implied I'm not a real programmer *today* [10:45]
surial I'm sorry, but, no. Just.. no. If one of those two is 'tone it down, you condescending prick', it's not me. [10:45]
dreamreal Neither one of those was "tone it down". [10:45]
surial dreamreal: actually, you raised the point about me calling you a hypocrite before. [10:45]
surial dreamreal: okay, so if that one wasn't the tone it down one, and the fuck no wasn't either, then which one was? [10:45]
dreamreal Hell, MY reference to toning it down was the conflict with cheeser, I didn't really see a problem in what you said to jinblack [10:46]
surial How do you get this shit? I'm just flabbergasted. I'm taking it personal? It's cheeser screaming obscenities at me 3 chats straight whilst I'm explaining how the security model of a javacard works. [10:46]
dreamreal I could see it going there, because it has gone there in the past, but ... *shrug* [10:46]
surial I've accused you of using a weird double standard when it comes to me, and, er, you're doing it again. [10:46]
dreamreal BTW, this may be relevant for you, but why, I'm not sure: two of the advocates for you staying in ##java are... me and cheeser [10:47]
surial That seems like intentional obfuscation of the point, no? [10:48]
surial If ##java is a professional resource then those with op powers should make the decision based on whether it is useful or not, taking into account all that they can. Which should presumably not involve me being extra careful around some of the op folks, that'd be.. taking it personal. [10:48]
dreamreal Well, you have a tendency to antagonize rather than unify, even when you're ... trying to help. [10:49]
surial If it's y'all's personal fiefdom, okay, different standards apply, then that'd be quite relevant. But if that's what it is, I have other places to be. [10:49]
dreamreal It's not a professional resource. See /topic. See the channel faq. See the double hashes in the name. [10:49]
dreamreal It's a place where enthusiasts support themselves in java development, fsvo "support" [10:49]
dreamreal see also ~tech support [10:49]
surial dreamreal: I can see why you'd say that. And it seems fair to take that into account. But cheeser is on record as preferring blunt advice over no advice. [10:49]
surial I'm just.. following standards explicitly held by active ops. [10:50]
dreamreal for me: be blunt. And be kind. [10:50]
dreamreal You have a tendency to excel at the former. [10:50]
surial In the mean time, I'm _STILL_ trying to figure out why I deserve that ban based on that specific interaction. If history is involved, okay, but surely this specific incident is worth some negative merits or we must conclude the ban shuold have happened ages ago and this was merely a random reminder. WHich seems a tad unfair, if you can't actually wait for an infraction, then I posit it's undeserved bias. [10:51]
dreamreal And yes, I'm aware that being kind makes being blunt less effective sometimes. Sometimes people NEED a dutch uncle... but you tend to live there, and that's not always constructive. [10:51]
surial So, either [A] cheeser's 'tone it down' was warranted (which it might based on the fuck no comment, but I explained that immediately after, in which case me telling cheeser he jumped the gun a bit was just idle chat and he sholdn't have gotten so defensive about it), or [B] it wasn't about that but about me telling cheeser that he was being a bit of a hypocrite. [10:51]
dreamreal And the ban is CHEESER's doing, not mine - I didn't ban you and wouldn't have - but I do believe history is a thing, built up over *years* [10:52]
acuzio walks away.... slowly [10:52]
dreamreal I know it affects MY reactions with you [10:52]
surial Regardless of which one it is, I don't think my assessment was wrong. How was cheeser not being a hypocrite if it was [B]? Was my contribution about the secueity model not highly useful if it was [A]? You seemed to suggest it was neither. I've asked you like 5 times already what it was if it wasn't either of these things. [10:52]
surial If you don't wanna answer, that's fucking weird. If you don't know, then the ban is unfair. [10:52]
dreamreal I don't think he really cared about the criticism of the security model [10:52]
dreamreal I don't think I've ever gotten the impression cheeser thinks java's flawless [10:53]
surial s/unfair/capricious and dictatorial - however you wanna put the rules and goings of a freenode channel into words, I assume you know what I mean. [10:53]
dreamreal caprice does factor in. You are in a channel at the whims of the channel owner, as am I. [10:53]
surial cheeser's last act was to tell me to tone it down, then insult me 3 times in a row. I don't think a well adjusted chat is in the cards right now. You did also interject yourself, I thought I'd check with you (you seem to be a lot more reasonable, certainly right now) for any insights. [10:54]
dreamreal You tend to act as if that's not the case. Good for you! You have balls and independence! The cost of that is that when conflict arises, your power level is pretty much 0. [10:54]
surial But I think I'm to conclude you have no idea other than 'welp, history'. [10:54]
surial I don't think that's useful; after all, it's not something I can change. What with lack of time travel skills. [10:54]
dreamreal surial: look, I've tried to tell you before, but I'll tell you again just because I'm fond of wasting effort [10:55]
dreamreal I totally respect your technical acumen. Hell, even when I know I'm right, if you say I'm wrong, I re-examine my suppositions, because that's science and how it works. [10:55]
surial dreamreal: I've already ceded the point that short of starting a crusade with freenode support, cheeser is free to be a dictatorial ass. But before I just straight up jump to that conclusion, I thought I'd check my assumptions first. [10:56]
dreamreal But: you tend to have an absolutist way of expressing yourself, and that rubs many people the wrong way (and it's not even accurate very often, unless you have specific starting circumstances; if you do, rock on! Most people don't.) [10:56]
surial If you agree with me that's how it works, okay. That's disappointing that both you and I hold that conclusion then. [10:56]
dreamreal Even with the security model, you headed down that path; I don't think you're wrong, but the MODE OF EXPRESSION is suboptimal for most people. And thus: "tone it down." This is my opinion, not cheeser's rationalization, okay [10:57]
acuzio "lack of time-travel abilities" .., huh , pleb [10:57]
surial dreamreal: Sure, I get that. Doesn't feel particularly relevant in this incident though. You were absolutist ("it is not java" is absolutist, right?), as was I. but based on.. history? apparently when I do it, it's bad. [10:57]
surial judging me by my actions and yourself by intent, perhaps? [10:57]
surial I'm trying to get y'all to maybe solve the whole 'history!' issue by... letting it the fuck go. [10:58]
dreamreal Telling people they're not professionals (in MY case, because I've been programming professionally for 30+ years) and telling an op to sit down and shut up, he doesn't contribute.... uh... with all due respect, that's stupid behavior [10:58]
dreamreal no [10:58]
surial Maybe just judge what I say by what I say. [10:58]
dreamreal you wanna change, we'll respect that. You wanna act in a way that makes us think you're an asshole? We'll respect that, too. [10:58]
dreamreal It's not like we haven't tried to say "consider saying it differently" multiple times [10:59]
surial dreamreal: it doesn't contributre? You did notice selckin agreed so much with the sentiment he felt the need to post it here. [10:59]
surial It was something cheeser needs to hear maybe, and I thought: Hell, I'll go out on a limb and speak truth to dictatorial power (which, as you yourself pointed it, is how it works). [10:59]
dreamreal selckin tends to have an adversarial relationship with the ops too. [10:59]
surial I kinda get the risks. I was hoping you'd agree somewhat with me that cheeser is _being a dictatorial ass_ with this move, even if you would perhaps have done the same thing in his shoes. [10:59]
dreamreal Did you... read anything I said? [11:00]
surial the point is: 'does not contribute' is objectively bullshit. [11:00]
dreamreal Oh wait, I forgot [11:00]
acidjnk_new [acidjnk_new!] has joined #java-talk [11:00]
surial 'it was stupid behaviour' - okay maybe you're on to something there. [11:00]
surial dreamreal: This is, I think, the 5th time. [11:00]
surial The 5th time you give me abstract advice, such as 'do that differently', the 5th time I Ask: Okay, so how, and the 5th time you fucking refuse to answer. [11:00]
dreamreal I haven't tried counting, because I don't have a litmus test for when to stop. [11:00]
surial Given that I assume you're not a tortoring sadist, I assume the reason you won't tell me is because you don't nkow. [11:01]
dreamreal surial: "be kinder" is probably the only advice I'd know how to give. I don't have a recipe for it. [11:01]
dreamreal It's learned behavior for me, too, you know. [11:01]
surial And if you don't know, then this bug up your ass with my tone is in fact, in your imagination and nothing I can do about it other than erase years of history from your mind, I guess. [11:01]
surial I know you don't put that much stock in nicks, but I do. [11:01]
dreamreal surial: ... [11:01]
dreamreal okay. [11:02]
surial dreamreal: I hope it's clear to you that this 'be nicer' 'okay how' bothers the fuck out of me. [11:02]
surial I am WILLING to hear your requests and act on it, but you never really tell me what to do. Giving someone vaguely realistic advice but then intentionally not giving enough for someone to meaningfully act on it is frustrating and an evil bastard's move. [11:02]
dreamreal Oh, it is. And I've been trying to figure out how to express it effectively, and failing, because I don't know how to say it in three words or less, and I don't think I can teach empathy over IRC. [11:02]
dreamreal Plus, you don't actually read what I say, so ... [11:02]
surial I keep assuming you mean well and thus, that you don't really know what you're trying to tell me to do, but at some point I have to eliminate that as an option and go with the 'cuz hes fucking with me' alternative. I'm not there yet. But this is disappointment #5. The fact I do count should tell you something. [11:03]
dreamreal I dunno. I'm kinda stuck. "Don't fight with people, and if you see a fight coming, avoid it" maybe? [11:03]
surial dreamreal: I read every word, unless freenode's servers are fucking up. [11:03]
dreamreal I mean... golly [11:03]
dreamreal 10:59 <surial> I kinda get the risks. I was hoping you'd agree somewhat with me that cheeser is _being a dictatorial ass_ with this move, even if you would perhaps have done the same thing in his shoes. [11:03]
dreamreal ^^^ this is what you said. I don't know why. [11:04]
surial how hard can it be to say: "So, where you said X, maybe you could have put it as Y"? [11:04]
surial I don't rate that effort for you [11:04]
dreamreal Because I started off pointing out that... cheeser was being pretty much a dictatorial ass, although not in those exact words, and that that's how IRC works [11:04]
dreamreal You really want me to do THAT? [11:04]
surial I mean, it's either [A] you don't even rate me high enough to spend 10 sedconds, which, given that this conversation is still going, seems highly unlikely, or [B] you honestly don't actually know what's so bad, in which case perhaps you owe it to me to realize part of the required adjusting is on your part too, or [C] you're being an intentional ass. [11:04]
surial What other option is there? [11:05]
surial I'm still on [B] but christ it's frustrating. [11:05]
dreamreal Like, "maybe instead of saying 'all those cocksuckers who mention security in java should suck on penises and cancer rather than say anything ever' you should say "security in java is complex and difficult to get right, even for experts, and should be examined on a case by case basis'" ? [11:05]
surial dreamreal: it felt like a different conversation: We were holding a conversation about what cheeser was doing in that specific instance, and related-but-separate, how freenode ops work. That statement of yours at 10:59 felt like you agreeing with 'yes that is how freenode works'. [11:06]
surial Didn't sound to me as 'yes he is being an ass', but, okay. My mistake for misunderstanding that. [11:06]
dreamreal well, and to be fair about [A], you have no problem misrepresenting me and my views in your own head and to others, calling my a hypocrite and unprofessional both to my face and publicly, so my positive feelings for you have an uphill climb, you know [11:06]
surial dreamreal: yes, sure. That. Precisely that (re: Like, "maybe instead of saying 'all those cocksuckers ....) [11:06]
surial If an incident like this happens and you would do me the kindness of telling me how to reframe, then maybe your demands I change my tone might go somewhere. [11:07]
dreamreal surial: if you want me to do that, on THAT LEVEL, you'd better be prepared to feel like I'm being a condescending ass (surprise?) - because that's how it'll feel TO ME. [11:07]
dreamreal I respect you, like I keep on pointing out, and that kind of response doesn't feel like respect. [11:07]
surial I asked NOW for this incident and I haven't heard anything. The obvious answer (don't say 'FUCK NO') was explicitly denied by you and probably by cheeser. If you'd like to retract that denial, 'kay, then it's just cheeser being unreasonably defensive, I guess. [11:07]
dreamreal surial: don't tell cheeser to shut up, he doesn't contribute. [11:08]
surial dreamreal: okay, but, in this instance (And 4 times more in the past), I explicitly asked you to do that. multiple times. [11:08]
dreamreal There? [11:08]
dreamreal Hell, I don't do that to my kids even [11:08]
dreamreal plus it's basic psychology [11:08]
surial I did say 'feels like', but sure. We covered how I agree that was silly (but I did it for the sake of the channel. The relatively large amount of time that passed was me considering things). [11:08]
dreamreal you didn't do it for the sake of the channel. It may have felt like it to you, but no. [11:09]
surial It felt like it needed to be said. I also expected that would result in a kick for a while. Possibly for a long while. I took that into account too. I hope you believe me when I say: I certainly didn't do that to try to gain anything from it for myself. [11:09]
dreamreal Speaking truth to power in IRC... nah, that's selfish behavior [11:09]
surial I was hoping some in the channel and preferably some ops would at least realize that, yeah, that's.. it would have been better if cheeser didn't do that. I assume you talk to each other sometimes. [11:10]
dreamreal We actually have a channel where we discuss things every so often. [11:10]
surial dreamreal: why is that selfish? I feel like cheeser's usual contributions are insulting to those int he channel asking, as they are usual brash and insulting ways to say 'shut up about this' and kneejerking to the 'off topic' cudgel really really fast. I'm DEFINITELY not the right person to complain about this, as I'm.. certainly not an angel in that regard but I'm trying to improve. But nobody was, and it's been going on [11:11]
surial for a fucking long time. [11:11]
dreamreal And I'm sorry, cheeser was *right* - maybe his reaction was more fervent than mine would have been today (it was early and decisive, where I think I'd have argued with you for fifteen minutes before getting there, assuming cheeser and co. wouldn't have censured me for arguing) [11:11]
dreamreal and I hardly ever bitch at people about offtopic, because I LIVE there most of the time :) [11:11]
dreamreal Hell, I think cheeser tells ME to get on topic more than anyone else in channel [11:12]
dreamreal although that's a subjective reading and not an objective one [11:12]
surial And often he's right to get the train back on track. [11:12]
fotato > but his contributions more then offset that [11:13]
dreamreal sure, because I enjoy meta more than the actual programming bits, because the objective programming's too easy: it works or it doesn't. Make it work. [11:13]
surial But sometimes he's not, and he's just as much of an arrogant blowhard then. Again, I'm aware of that being a bit hypocritcal. I'd have preferred it if I wasn't the one who had to raise this point. [11:13]
dreamreal sighs [11:13]
fotato honestly the angry ranting individuals quickly turn toxic in all the companies i've ever worked at. [11:13]
dreamreal yes, you're the hero in this particular play [11:13]
dreamreal ^^^ this is sarcastic [11:13]
fotato no matter how good or experienced they are [11:13]
surial dreamreal: oh, you with the extremist positions. [11:14]
dreamreal How is that extremist? [11:14]
surial dreamreal: you called it 'selfish' before which feels like the other extreme. Excuse me for trying to say it's a little more nuanced. [11:14]
dreamreal "it is utterly self-serving. You are a moron." [11:14]
dreamreal "It is selfish. You are acting like a moron." [11:14]
surial If you take away 'surial claims to be a selfless heroic sacrificing angel', maybe you should think long and hard about accusing me of 'not reading what you write'. [11:14]
dreamreal I didn't say you were... oh god [11:15]
dreamreal this is so fucking pointless [11:15]
dreamreal you may not know this about me, because it's public knowledge and it's on my website and everything: I live in a state of crushing clinical depression and spend most of my mental energy rebelling against ennui. You. Are. Not. Helping. [11:16]
surial the aim is [1] for cheeser to be less gruff about shutting conversations down. [2] whilst I work on tone, for y'all to get annoyed at my tone based on _MY TONE_ and not on imagined meanings based on history. [11:16]
surial I'd take it as a kindness if you (and the ops) could work on that. If not, it's your channel. I think it'd be a better channel if you'd do those things, and I assume you want ##java to be a nice channel. [11:16]
dreamreal I bitch at cheeser about [1] all the time. [2] ain't gonna happen. Look at... oh, Trump. If he were to act like a decent man, would you think he was a decent man? No, because his history is that he's a flaming douchebag. [11:17]
dreamreal Now imagine that YOU are Trump. [11:17]
surial dreamreal: The thing about trump? You don't have to jump the gun on 'oh hes a flaming douchebag'. Just wait 3 minutes. [11:17]
surial and if you wait 3 minutes and the nice things trump is sayinhg remain nice? Then maybe do some research and figure out it's a ploy. And then you get to complain about the ploy. But if you can't find that either, maybe shut the fuck up and let him be nice. [11:18]
dreamreal Change the douchebaggery significantly, and you still have the same problem. You have a history, as do I - I live with my history all the time, which is why I don't resent selckin's resentment. [11:18]
surial The alternative is to vote that people can never change, and once you've pigeonholed someone in a certain way there is no point ever reassessing anything. [11:18]
dreamreal blinks [11:18]
fotato interactions are always going to be coloured by reputation. [11:18]
dreamreal I'm ... so impressed that you say that. Do you believe it? [11:19]
surial sure. I'm not saying 'it is unfair you do that!' or 'cut it out entirely!'. I'm asking if it would be possible to reassess how much 'colour' reputation is adding. [11:19]
surial dreamreal: Yo ucould say I'm an extremist about it. [11:19]
dreamreal sure. We even mentioned - the ops did - among ourselves when over the past few weeks your tone had shifted significantly. Then it went back to what it was. [11:19]
dreamreal I reassess *constantly*, BTW. Self-examination is a prelude to examination of others, because the starting premises factor in. [11:20]
surial dreamreal: therein lies the problem maybe? 'it went back to what it was'.. did it? [11:20]
surial I don't remember being called out on anything recently other than what JUST happened. [11:21]
fotato yes. [11:21]
surial (And i'm treating #j-t, #xj and ##j separately). [11:21]
dreamreal well, considering you call me a hypocrite in both #xj and ##j the same way... [11:21]
surial and I don't even know WHAT you're calling me out on. antagnostic statements? insulting statements? Or hogging the channel with long debates? [11:21]
dreamreal but we don't call you out much because there's no point, every time we try the response is the same [11:21]
dreamreal we figure you're an adult, at some point [11:22]
fotato i'm just imagining this conversation playing out like [11:22]
fotato fotato's title: "Doja Cat Explains 'Juicy' To A Classical Music Expert | Classical Kyle | Capital XTRA" [11:22]
ron morning [11:23]
surial dreamreal: I'm going through the logs. Not in a beliggerent 'fuck that guy imma prove im right!', mind. Because I would like to know what you / other ops are upset about. [11:23]
surial today I can't find anything other than 'fuck no' (which I repeat: YOu said wasn't the problem), and the cheeser incident which I'm already aware of. [11:23]
dreamreal fotato: I figure it's gonna end up with me being an unwashed hypocrite republican somehow [11:23]
fotato butt butt butt butt butt. [11:24]
surial I asked you to let history be. Sad to see you're not willing on that one ;( [11:24]
dreamreal surial: did you know that at one point I was playing with markov chains generating sentiment analysis? [11:24]
dreamreal It was really funny, and sad at the same time [11:24]
dreamreal the two most negative nicks in ##java... were you and me. In that order. Me mostly bitching at you. [11:25]
dreamreal It got me seriously reconsidering how I interact on ##java. [11:25]
surial Glad I could help, I guess? [11:25]
surial Did.. christ. [11:25]
dreamreal if that's what you get out of that, I'm... nonplussed [11:25]
surial did you read anything I said in the last while? [11:25]
dreamreal yes. [11:26]
surial I told you I find these accusations of tone, without ever actually pointing out specific instances, fucking frustrating. [11:26]
surial and you just did it AGAIN. [11:26]
surial this time going: No really surial. I Wrote an entire fucking AI to prove it! [11:26]
dreamreal I get it. I'm also not trawling logs for you. [11:26]
surial Well, I am, for me. [11:26]
surial yesterday: Bashed X11 some about a clipboard issue, then pointed at a wiki on ubuntu about how to fix it. I rate it as quite useful and the hint of antagonising in it wasn't pointed at anybody in channel (or any individual) and rates an order of magnitude less. So, I don't think it's that. [11:26]
dreamreal What would happen is that I'd say "look at this set of timestamps" and you'd diminish it as a mere raindrop, ignoring the thunderstorm in which said raindrops existed. [11:26]
dreamreal That's human psychology, and it's fine. [11:27]
kamoricks [kamoricks!a7dc951c@Syncleus/dev/freeone3000] has joined #java-talk [11:27]
ron are you kids having a fight in public? [11:27]
fotato its kind of cute. [11:27]
kamoricks Alright. My code just got launched to Xbox Support worldwide. [11:27]
fotato congrats, kamoricks! [11:28]
surial hmm, my interactions with gAb1 could have been better. However, the last words gab1 said in that interaction is 'thanks, surial!' so I think i did okay there. [11:28]
fotato now let us all tell you why everything you did sucked. [11:28]
ron kamoricks: but does it work? [11:28]
fotato wait, not not all of us. [11:28]
surial then locustlord, I told him 'what the fuck'. 3 lines later, you did the same. Can't be that. [11:28]
kamoricks ron: It works better than not having it. [11:28]
ron kamoricks: win! \o/ [11:28]
fotato what does it do? [11:28]
surial thanks from locustlord to my face too later. [11:28]
kamoricks It determines if your query is a semantic match (instead of a textual match) for a FAQ entry, and if it is, the FAQ answer is returned as a top search result for a support search. [11:29]
ron oh nice [11:29]
fotato that actually sounds super useful and i'm surprised MS dont have something like that in place sitewide. [11:29]
dreamreal kamoricks: woo! I have done bits and pieces of that for javabot, too [11:29]
surial another day down. Day before just general positivity (interesting questions tend to do that). So whatever tone changes you noticed presumably were from last week then. [11:30]
kamoricks fotato: That's actually what I'm working on next, this was the 'trial' project [11:30]
dreamreal but revising the factoids is a bit... more... involved than I want to undertake [11:30]
surial dreamreal: See? When I say: I _DO NOT KNOW_ what you are talking about, I really do not know. [11:30]
fotato kamoricks++ [11:30]
fotato kamoricks has a karma level of 52, fotato [11:30]
dreamreal surial: it's fine. [11:30]
fotato is surial implying he needs a shock collar [11:30]
dreamreal you don't know, you don't see, it's okay. if I can identify tonal shifts from you going forward that add up to more than mood - because everyone has good days and bad days - I'll try to tell you. [11:31]
surial I'm actually implying dreamreal needs to stop imagining my tone. [11:31]
fotato uh dude [11:31]
fotato he's not imagining it. [11:31]
surial But maybe I'm the one missing things, and I'm sigining up for the shock collar if that's the case. [11:31]
dreamreal damn it [11:31]
dreamreal I have only the one fucking computer [11:31]
surial fotato: feel free to point out (I think /msg would be the appropraite avenue). [11:31]
dreamreal now I've spit my hot chocolate over it [11:31]
surial dreamreal: you're welcome :P [11:31]
fotato surial: honestly tho it seems counterproductive to try [11:32]
dreamreal my poor cat, now she's got hot chocolate over her too [11:32]
dreamreal that was unkind, you gotta warn people, man [11:32]
surial fotato: okay, so you are, evidently just as dreamreal is, rejected to either the position that I cannot ever change, or that it's not worth the 10 keys it'd take? [11:32]
surial That's disappointing. [11:32]
dreamreal kamoricks: I've been thinking fuseki or blazeds for the datastore... but you'd also have to factor in how to get people to teach it semantically [11:33]
surial dreamreal: thanks for trying next time. If there is a next time. [11:33]
dreamreal nobody said you can't change, surial. Hell, I pointed out changes. [11:33]
dreamreal And it's not a matter of "you're being a dork again," it's like an FFT [11:33]
fotato i'm saying that your behaviour seems super narcissitic and defensive and when called out on it (as you've repeatedly done) you brush off specific instances as outliers. it's a pattern, and i dont have the energy or desire to try to help you break it. [11:33]
kamoricks dreamreal: We do semantics with a bert-uncase-medium model fine-tuned on 100k in-domain examples [11:33]
dreamreal you can be angry or mad or react poorly four times in a row without actually having that as your default... but then again, it might be [11:34]
dreamreal kamoricks: yeah, that'd be... fascinating with IRC [11:34]
kamoricks I'd be really interesting. You actually have way more data than we do, thanks to the channel logs. [11:34]
dreamreal but we also lack context almost entirely [11:34]
surial fotato: did I call out a specific instance as an outlier and thus disregarded it in THIS conversation? This convo starter with my specific interaction with cheeser. I disregarded it here because I Explicitly asked for other examples (I admitted that was probably stupid but I tried to explain my reasoning for that particular one). [11:34]
dreamreal heh [11:35]
Faux wawaraafarfawwa typescript having a 2s startup time, it's like that horrible future people imagined of using java for cli scripts again, except actually annoyingly slow. [11:35]
kamoricks dreamreal: For tractability purposes, the context window for transformer models like BERT is actually really small - usually it's only one sentence to begin with. [11:35]
dreamreal surial: that FFT idea is actually pretty useful in human interactions [11:35]
dreamreal surial: BTW, you're doing it [11:35]
surial fotato: You seem to come across as this kind of reasoning which is ingenious, but.. boy. Fun, this: "You always get so defensive!" - "No I'm not!". [11:35]
surial fotato: "You always deny everything!" [11:36]
dreamreal surial: Instead of "did I call out a specific instance..." maybe you could say "Hmm, fotato, I guess I can imagine how you could think that. Let me think about it." [11:36]
surial Thank you. [11:36]
dreamreal That way you're not even saying "you're a fucking idiot fotato" but you are leaving the possibility open, for your own satisfaction, and yet at the same time you're acknowledging the miniscule possibility that fotato's right, considering he's not the only source of that same sentiment [11:36]
dreamreal extra bonus points for actually thinking about why he (and I, and others) might think it [11:37]
kamoricks (lots of the current generation of NLP stuff is "this stuff shouldn't even theoretically work!" we know what it should do, and then we deliberately do something much, much, much simpler.) [11:37]
surial Taht one doesn't really stick, I don't think I'm supposed to go out of my way when someone levels an accusation at me without context or references. [11:37]
dreamreal surial: THEY have context [11:37]
surial But thank you nonetheless, I can see how that would be less antagonizing. [11:37]
dreamreal empathize [11:37]
surial with fotato? [11:37]
surial wow, okay, this is gonna be hard. [11:38]
dreamreal try to imagine what might make their POV [11:38]
dreamreal With everyone, what kind of asshole doesn't try to empathize with the people around them [11:38]
dreamreal "Oh, you like Trump? Uhh... hmm, from your point of view, I don't think I'd agree even given the starting point, but..." [11:38]
dreamreal that "but" is actually the key word there [11:38]
surial What an american sentiment. [11:38]
dreamreal yes [11:38]
dreamreal it turns out I'm an American and a human [11:39]
surial you can emphatize and see someone's POV without saying meaingless trifles and shutting down the conversation. [11:39]
dreamreal sure [11:39]
dreamreal try that shit [11:39]
surial Will do. [11:39]
surial I'm going to go back to actually moving the conversation along to where we can learn a few things, butb I'll try to restart that conversation. [11:39]
dreamreal giggles [11:39]
dreamreal You know, I had an interview recently where they asked me a bunch of questions - like, an hour and a half's worth - and then got nonplussed when I didn't have any questions for THEM besides how serious they were. My response to that was that their questions had told me everything I needed, and that I knew how to do what they wanted and needed (and where those differed). That got me a good bit of [11:41]
dreamreal silence. I didn't get offered, but it wasn't because of THAT. [11:41]
ron silence! [11:41]
dreamreal But it surprised them that I'd, like, pay attention, which was amusing in and of itself. [11:41]
ron I kill you [11:41]
dreamreal toda! [11:42]
surial dreamreal: Between interviewees often being a bit nervous, and 'don't just answer questions at an interview, ask a bunch of questions right back at em!' being the 'wisdom du jour' about how to do interviews, I... emphatize with their nonplussed reaction. [11:48]
dreamreal surial: Sure. I pointed out that everything I would have asked was answered by their questions, but... c'est la vie. It wasn't a particularly compelling engagement. [11:49]
surial so, not too disappointed that you didn't get it, then? [11:50]
fotato omg you guyes gophercon is in orlando next year [11:50]
dreamreal surial: not at all, really [11:50]
surial I'm having a hard time remembering when, as a developer, I did not enjoy extreme levels of job security. Gives us relatively sweat-free interviews, fortunately. [11:50]
dreamreal Well, I'm *working* now, but I have particular requirements my current engagement doesn't fulfill [11:50]
dreamreal and I need those requirements met as non-negotiables [11:51]
fotato you have *needs*! [11:51]
dreamreal damn straight [11:52]
dreamreal actually, if we didn't have the ACA my current gig would be fine [11:52]
dreamreal or maybe if the situation with the ACA was different somehow [11:52]
tang^ Alabama Cobra Association? [11:53]
dreamreal obamacare [11:53]
dreamreal our insurance situation ... does not work under obamacare. If I have to acquire my own insurance, I get *screwed* and not in the good way. [11:54]
fotato i think one of the most amazing things the GOP did was make people think the ACA was different from obamacare [11:55]
dreamreal They... did? (I'm trying to imagine who would think that.) I mostly call it the ACA because I prefer the real name over the colloquial name, which seems a testament to pride rather than efficacy. [11:56]
tang^ ouch [11:56]
fotato it's anecdotal of course but i've read a fair sized handful of similar accoutns. [11:56]
surial Last 538 thing I saw is that if you ask people 'on a scale of 1 to 10 yadayada', every single aspect of ACA separately rates significantly higher than 'ACA', and amongst those who rate it worst, 'obamacare' gets significantly lower ratings. But, '20% of the american populace kneejerks into giving it the lowest score and a spit on the floor if the term obama is involved', whilst sad, is not really news, right? [11:57]
dreamreal *nod* Well, where I live, the mandated care is the worst plan offered (option blue) and that's my ONLY choice... and it's more expensive than pretty much any family plan I can get as a W2 employee. That option blue plan has *one* clinic in my county available, as well. [11:58]
dreamreal surial: he has a legacy of being ultimately divisive, yes, it's not really news at all [11:58]
surial possibly the populace wants all the things the ACA grants but in a nicer package or whatnot, but the most obvious explanation is that both 'ACA' and 'obamacare' as terms have been quite successfully damaged by its opponents, yeah. I think fotato is right. I find this impressive, at any rate. [11:58]
dreamreal "we all need to come together as one people, and those moron fucktards who disagree with me can go rot away and die" ... um [11:59]
surial Pretty sure he never said that. [11:59]
dreamreal yes, ACA and obamacare both have been poisoned as terms [11:59]
dreamreal it's not a literal quote, not the second phrase at least [11:59]
surial I don't think he ever meant it either. Now, McConnell... yeah he might as well have said it literally like that. [12:00]
dreamreal but "I will govern with phone and pen" and the "those people with their guns and their God"... ugh [12:00]
dreamreal Obama is, and was, a pretty decent person. I think he'll end up being remembered as a Carter who served two terms. [12:00]
surial I think the quote is "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." [12:01]
dreamreal He'll also be remembered for sending a drone after american citizens, but ... [12:01]
dreamreal surial: That rings true, but I haven't looked up the quote [12:01]
surial I did. [12:01]
dreamreal This surprises me 0%. [12:01]
surial That' a quote (source: the guardian, imma trust them if they say its a quote). as a soundbite, not his finest hour, and a politician should be aware that soundbites are a thing. [12:01]
dreamreal indeed. [12:01]
dreamreal but he also never really counteracted it... or if he did it was ineffective, surprising for such an orator [12:02]
dreamreal and Obama was a fantastic orator to me [12:02]
surial I heard of this quote, but context is a funny thing. I was _positive_ he'd said it in the later years, well after 2012, and I wasn't gonna blame a man for stopping to try to hand out an arm in peace when it's been blown right off the last 10 times he tried. But.. it's before 2008. [12:03]
dreamreal his ... what was it, 2004 speech to the DNC? The one before he ran for POTUS? Fantastic. [12:03]
surial or rather, it was 2008 - before the election I mean. [12:03]
dreamreal he was trying to get democrats to support him! [12:03]
surial I just think he's got a smidge of dutch in him. He's just saying truth, but, in a blunt way. And in so doing, throwing a few more folks into that particular hole than deserved it. Which, going back to 'ah, but, he's a politician'.. not his finest hour. [12:04]
surial Then again I also liked hilary's basket of deplorables comment. I will cede that in the USA, proooobably not a good move for someone with plans for the oval office. [12:04]
surial I admit this quote feels less blunt that hillary's move :P [12:05]
dreamreal She said it in such a way that she lumped people who weren't the deplorables she was talking about in WITH those deplorables. It was a terrible application of game theory. [12:05]
dreamreal I keep wishing the democrats would learn something about game theory, but so far, no dice [12:05]
surial no dice indeed. Here in NL we have more parties, stakes are way lower, party leadership and movers and shakers still owe more allegieance to country thn party so I have to worry about none of this, and as a consequence, most of our politicians are business rejects and not the smartest tools in the shed. THey honestly just wanna do some politics and then retire, not really gaining all that much either in personal power or [12:07]
surial otherwise. Sooo, I get to vote for people who DONT play the game at all, because that's better. In the USA I don't think it's a feasible plan to refuse to vote for game players. [12:07]
surial So.. not sure what I'd do. Do you vote for the non-game-players because ideology, or for the game players cuz, well, pragmatism. [12:08]
dreamreal wait, you'd WANT to vote for game players [12:08]
surial do you, though? [12:08]
dreamreal game theory isn't about manipulation, it's about cost analysis and consequences [12:08]
dreamreal hell yes [12:08]
surial up to an extent. [12:08]
dreamreal wh... no, that's... what game theory is [12:08]
dreamreal I mean, it's a crappy summary, sure, but.. [12:09]
surial Depends on how far it is taken. If some politician seems like they'll throw principles and a stable country future to the wolves for some short term gain (I dunno, cosying up with some populist borderline nazi shit and intentional, knowingly lying about crucial economic policy juuust cuz some extremist right party is sucking away a few of your votes.... I'm not too happy about that). [12:09]
surial To the UKians in the channel: That totally wasn't about your country. Totally not. at all. [12:09]
surial I guess I can file that away as 'their cost analysis of cosying up to populist arsehats is so far off the mark compared to mine, I best not vote for them', maybe. [12:10]
dreamreal I'd argue that Brexit is a classic failure of game theory [12:10]
dreamreal so would impeachment in the US [12:10]
surial I'm not so sure. [12:10]
surial At least, if we go back to that fucking doomed referendum. [12:10]
dreamreal So would leaning left in the 2018 elections after 2016 [12:10]
surial It REALLY seemed like the referendum would shut the UKIP the fuck up, eliminate their existence, get nigel farage to retire, and win the conservatives the party. With a REALLY small, very very small chance, of throwing the country is utter chaos and turmoil. so small, surely the math says to go for it. [12:11]
dreamreal Sure, it's a failure of education and cost analysis - the opponents to Brexit screwed up, and the Brexit people themselves screwed everyone [12:12]
surial The math was probably off. cameron probbaly underrated quite how damaging it'd be if that 'really tiny smidge of a chance the referendum goes bad' actually did roll snake eyes. But it is not clear to me that it was obviously completely off. [12:12]
surial okay, so, the remain campaign fucked the pooch on that one. Probably, they must be hitting themselves. And right now this very week, the remain campaign again is busy snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. [12:13]
surial but cameron's 'lets apply game theory!' approach to calling for the referndum? I would not have. I would strongly consider not voting for a party if I know that's how they operate, even if I am in utter agreement on every policy they have. [12:13]
surial For stuff like that, I don't want the cost/benefit analysis approach. I want the ideology. No cosying up with hitler-esque horseshit. Even if the math says it's a good move. [12:14]
surial mind, only for that kind of extreme stuff. Everywhere else? Bring it. And the voting public should respect it more. Rate competence as highly at least as opinions and ideologies. [12:14]
dreamreal *nod* I don't know enough of the ideology involved in Brexit to invoke Hitler or whatever; here, ol' Adolf's name is used for virtually everyone disagreed with [12:14]
dreamreal "You know who liked Chocolate Mint ice cream? HITLER." [12:15]
dreamreal then when a real hitler comes along, the term has no meaning [12:15]
dreamreal and a lot of people in the US are stupid, so "what's wrong with demonizing anyone who disagrees with you" seems to be a common sentiment [12:16]
ron looked away for a few minutes, then there's a wall of text by dreamreal and surial. must be not important. [12:18]
dreamreal ron++ [12:18]
dreamreal ron has a karma level of 247, dreamreal [12:18]
tang^ politick friday [12:18]
ron oh too bad acuzio's not active then [12:19]
ron then it would have been a party! [12:19]
ron omg all christmas ornaments 50% off [12:20]
ron omg all christmas decor 50% off [12:20]
ron omg all cyclamen 40% off [12:20]
dreamreal and target doesn't even have their paltry hanukkah shit out [12:20]
ron my target does [12:21]
ron your target sucks [12:21]
dreamreal agreed [12:21]
tang^ our target is defunct [12:21]
ron google assistant: are you bored? do you wanna play? me: yes! google assistant: noted. <eoc> [12:22]
dreamreal haha [12:22]
tang^ let me guess... it activated all your webcams then [12:22]
ron I actually went to check if it started my xbox :p [12:23]
ron it didn't ;) [12:23]
surial dreamreal: In the brexit case, open-faced (as in, it is abundantly clear the source of the lie knows better) lies about how much money leaving the EU would somehow bring, and a very clear 'blame others for your personal woes; others as defined, really, by skincolour' mindset. [12:23]
surial dreamreal: Maybe I'm in breach of godwin's by summarizing that as 'hitler-esque shit'. [12:24]
surial Hm, I shold just have said those two things, fits on a line. Will do next time. [12:24]
fotato What the fuck is cyclamen [12:24]
acuzio ron: what did i do ? [12:25]
enoq [enoq!~enoq@2a02:8388:6a87:b080:649f:9456:c1b1:28e4] has joined #java-talk [12:25]
ron g cyclamen [12:25]
ron fotato, [12:25]
ron acuzio: you exist [12:25]
tang^ ah shit... I didn't want to go to google [12:26]
tang^ note to self, pay attention to the links [12:26]
ron mock tang^ [12:26]
javabot points at tang^ and laughs [12:26]
ron fuck, I did it again. flying out at 9:30am ???? [12:29]
acuzio ron: yes [12:30]
acuzio i think [12:30]
tang^ mock ron [12:30]
tang^ ron you're going to live a long life. [12:30]
ron oh look I can upgrade my flight to business class for only $8129. [12:31]
tang^ geez [12:31]
acuzio fucking experian [12:35]
acuzio you cant actually login to their website - you have to fucking only login via an app and the fucking thing is slow as fuck [12:35]
ron ok? [12:36]
surial acuzio: fuck! [12:36]
acuzio indeed - [12:36]
surial sounds like a chromium style app (light wrapper around HTML), except the html they wrap isn't available on site, or they did juuust the auth bit different. bizarre, and kinda user hostile. I thought experian was just a 'we query a bunch of sites to give you an overview of all prices for a given flight'? [12:38]
ron the credit report company? [12:38]
acuzio surial: it is exactly that - ., a fucking light wrapper that is fucking useless [12:39]
surial Ha! I was thinking of expedia. [12:39]
ron yes you were [12:39]
surial how do you revenue 4.7 billion dollars with over 20% of that sticking as income, making fucking credit reports? [12:40]
ron easily? [12:41]
acuzio Cause its a company that has the best lobbyists [12:41]