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« 2019-02-18

2019-02-19

2019-02-20 »

Nick Message Date
Jantz [Jantz!~IceChat9@2407:7000:8d04:100:2cc0:d5bb:b958:773e] has joined #java-talk [12:54]
KekSi 'morning [01:33]
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sonOfRa Morning [03:16]
sonOfRa Interesting, new phone thingy at work has a web client that... Lets everyone see exactly who is calling which number and when [03:17]
KekSi so we somehow keep getting packs of chocolate bars whenever we buy furniture for the office [03:18]
KekSi we expanded by another floor earlier this month and we were sent 15 boxes of ~2.5kg each [03:18]
KekSi one box has 14200kcal and whatnot http://www.keksfabrik.eu/mobile/IMG-20190219-WA0008.jpg [03:18]
KekSi F [03:18]
sonOfRa om nom nom [03:19]
KekSi i hardly ever eat chocolate and while the rest of the company has gone through 5 boxes already i haven't had a single piece [03:19]
sonOfRa your mistake! [03:20]
KekSi stuff's been around since like wednesday last week [03:20]
KekSi nah, i feel like i'm fat and can't seem to lose any weight (even though i go for 2 cardio-heavy workouts a week and have been eating <1500kcal for over a month) [03:21]
KekSi which is odd.. the only "tasty" things i consume are a can of monster energydrink (sugarfree and <5kcal/can) in the morning and about a bottle of coke zero (<10kcal/bottle) [03:22]
KekSi seems odd -- i lost like 25kg like this in like 2012 or so -- but still at ~92kg since december [03:22]
sonOfRa any medication that leads to increased "water retention" or something? That's what my ADs did when I still took them [03:23]
KekSi no, none [03:25]
KekSi i stopped taking ADs in like march last year [03:25]
KekSi and those were 2 different ones -- sertraline as an SSRI and to help me sleep and be hungry: mirtazapine (low dose so no psycho-active effects, just sleepiness & hunger) [03:28]
sonOfRa Yeah Mirtazapine is what I took as well, which has water retention as a 1/100 side effect, hence my asking [03:29]
sonOfRa Also the most *vivid* dreams I ever had while I took it, especially when first starting. Shit was wild. [03:30]
KekSi i just slept like a baby - which i hadn't in all of 2017 until i got those in like october [03:31]
KekSi had an average of ~3h/night over the entire year [03:31]
KekSi when i could suddenly sleep for 8 or even up to 12 hours that was just magic [03:32]
[twisti] it makes me irationally angry that git has diff engines for fortran, pascal and fountain of all things, but not for fucking js, ts or xml [03:32]
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sonOfRa Great, our phone thingy has a "web client" [04:31]
sonOfRa What it does is remote-control your phone, it doesn't actually have voice/audio :( [04:31]
[twisti] still neat sonOfRa [05:08]
sonOfRa yes but my work phone *sucks* [05:08]
sonOfRa I wanted to not use it! [05:08]
[twisti] id much rather enter phone numbers with a keyboard/cut&paste than with a phone touchscreen [05:08]
[twisti] usb headset + website! [05:09]
sonOfRa I don't have 2 headsets, and I already have mine on my head anyhow [05:09]
sonOfRa But it's hooked up to my computer [05:09]
[twisti] s2bu [05:09]
sonOfRa indeed [05:10]
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devish [devish!345f4b0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.52.95.75.13] has joined #java-talk [06:26]
devish Any tips on setting software standards for team. We are trying to build some common best practises in our team, not sure from where to start. [06:26]
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[twisti] start with an argument about spaces vs tabs, and if spaces how many [06:32]
[twisti] that always goes well [06:32]
Faux Standards for code, or standards for teamwork? [06:35]
Faux Code is easy. Turn mandatory reviews on (no excuses, just turn it on, ban everyone from pushing directly to master). Go find a static analyser you don't hate (checkstyle, sonar, etc.), turn off all the warnings you disagree with, and work on grinding the others down, etc. [06:36]
KekSi if you do microservices also think about implementing something like this: http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920053675.do [06:41]
KekSi KekSi's title: "Production-Ready Microservices - O'Reilly Media" [06:41]
KekSi before shit get out of hand and the flood of APIs and services starts killing you [06:41]
Faux Oh my, you'd have such a lol at work. [06:42]
KekSi hm? [06:42]
Faux Someone has read a "node on kukes patterns" book (or done a load of crack) and come up with a deployment strategy. [06:42]
Faux I've only thrown up in my mouth a little once so far this week. [06:43]
KekSi also, at the latest in production: add monitoring, add distributed tracing, add log aggregation [06:43]
Faux Haha, log aggregation. I have never seen that done better than ssh+grep. [06:44]
[twisti] https://www.change.org/p/united-nations-send-matt-damon-to-mars-to-retrieve-opportunity [06:45]
KekSi well it's quite easy with docker containers but getting some statistical overview etc is quite good [06:45]
KekSi though a shitload more OPS-heavy and expensive than grep :p [06:45]
sonOfRa Hahahaha, you know the slightly controversial new european copyright law? The one where, after putting the vote in april last week, there was already protests in cologne with a few thousand people, and more protests were announced for march 23rd? [06:53]
sonOfRa Well, they just moved the vote up to next thursday, so that it happens before the protests! [06:53]
sonOfRa (and then people wonder why people vote for leaving the EU because it undermines democracy) [06:54]
sonOfRa And apparently the only publicly available (even to the people who have to vote on it!) version of the law is a leak by politico. So tomorrow, they will be discussing a law they were not yet allowed to read in the parliament, and next thursday they will vote on it [06:57]
waz pretty easy to do better log aggregation than ssh and grep. You need some non shitty dev/ops :) [07:06]
Faux Well, as I said, I've never seen it. Clearly every dev/ops team I've worked with is dumb. [07:07]
waz I've seen it done poorly more than not but done right it's super nice to have [07:09]
KekSi docker logs and then aggregated from all services in greylog [07:11]
KekSi and tbh our devs are shit at logging and aren't really gaining any insight / have any insight into how their shit actually runs [07:12]
KekSi which is what happens when you shield your devs from interactions with ops and never have them own up to anything [07:12]
scav morning [07:23]
scav weather bergen norway [07:23]
scav Weather for Bergen, Norway | 43 F (6 C) feels like 39 F (4 C) | humidity at 81% | Mostly Cloudy | 1:23 PM [07:23]
scav fucking summer! :D [07:23]
Jantz [Jantz!~IceChat9@2407:7000:8d04:100:653a:9c3:99c7:72b2] has joined #java-talk [08:08]
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scav Faux: git flow. [08:21]
Faux So triggered. [08:22]
Faux I don't even know why someone would say something so rude and offensive in my presence. [08:22]
sonOfRa Trying to introduce code review at work :( [08:22]
sonOfRa "Yeah but for trivial changes we'll still just push to master right" [08:22]
Faux We used to do that at old work. It was.. more stressful, if not actively harmful to the codebase. [08:23]
sonOfRa I just want to have proper code review. Looking at some of the existing code here the quality is... lacking [08:24]
sonOfRa Simple things like non-standard class names [08:24]
Faux At work (with cough quite a few juniors cough) we seem to have adopted where every review must have three comments and at least one change, which is a little frustrating at times. [08:25]
scav I push to master all the time. I am a gos. [08:25]
sonOfRa There *is* just 5 of us who do java, and the argument is that we simply don't have time for code review, but I've given up arguing that this will bite us in the ass [08:25]
Faux As I ranted about before, I do wish github or someone would do automatic move-to-master; you push to a branch, and when travis passes, master is that branch. [08:26]
Faux (For teams not big enough for review, i.e. because there frequently aren't two people working on it.) [08:26]
fotato I was generally ok with sensible people being able to push to master for stuff like hacking CI and fixing repo fuckups [08:27]
fotato Until a supposedly sensible person took a massive shit on it [08:27]
fotato And then took another massive shit on it trying to fix it. [08:27]
Faux We have everyone as admins on most repos (although not on the "main" ones) so people can fuck it if they want, it's just harder than doing a PR. [08:27]
sonOfRa I'd consider myself sensible, and *still* on my new service I committed fucked tests to master because I made wrong assumptions about junit [08:28]
sonOfRa Wouldn't have flown through any code review [08:28]
Faux I do it all the time to myself. [08:28]
Faux I have a library that explicitly supports windows and set up only travis, not appveyor. [08:28]
Faux It worked on Windows for approximately one commit. [08:28]
fotato sonOfRa: regarding their ?trivial change? question, ask them to define what a trivial change is. [08:29]
fotato Then reducto ad shutthefuckupum their argument. [08:29]
sonOfRa Yeah, that's what I tried :D [08:30]
sonOfRa For example, this test: https://gist.github.com/sonOfRa/b9ad08a521ef50e66f63e8b0f7aef348 [08:30]
sonOfRa At first glance, nothing wrong with it. It passes, everything is fine, the code works! [08:30]
sonOfRa (Except that nothing past line 27 is ever executed) [08:30]
Faux I would have :+1:'d that without catching that! [08:31]
scav I would have caught it and still let it pass. I am a consultant after all. [08:31]
Faux Gotta do work generation, yeah. [08:31]
sonOfRa Luckily, my code was correct enough that all the assertions made below still hold [08:32]
sonOfRa Only showed up when I wrote a negative test for another condition [08:32]
surial sonOfRa: why is everything past 27 not executed? [08:36]
sonOfRa Because that's the way junit's @Rule magic works [08:37]
sonOfRa The exception is thrown, the rule verifies it, and then the rest of the code in that test doesn't execute [08:37]
sonOfRa I migrated the tests to try { } catch (ExpectedEx ex) { asserts...; rethrow(); now [08:39]
sonOfRa Sadly spring boot is still on junit 4, and both testng and junit 5 require non-trivial pom.xml fiddling [08:39]
Faux Christ the junit5 crap. [08:40]
scav when ever you get new people on a team, you always have to go through the process of explaining them why their ideas are horrible. i hate it. i want to work on a team with you guys. based on what i see here, we would be great fits! [08:47]
Faux What, we're pre-conditioned to be abusive and hate each other, but used to it? [08:47]
sonOfRa surial: basically, rules are AOP magic that run before and after the tests. In this case, the rule stops the test from failing, and instead succeeds it, when an exception is thrown. However, the test is now over, because an unhandled exception happened. [08:48]
scav i mean, all of those things i can live with with. its the other stuff with people i have problems with [08:48]
scav sonOfRa: this is why we try to avoid pretty much everything that is not @Test and @Test(expected) in our tests. aint nobody have time for this shit. [08:49]
sonOfRa yeah, I removed all the rule nonsense now. There's still some @Before and @After but those are fine I guess [08:50]
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scav Yeah those are okay. Can?t do to much harm with those. [08:55]
sonOfRa But moral of the story is, code review is important! [08:56]
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scav Yes, it is - we use it all the time [09:18]
scav I learnt that lesson working with offshore resources [09:18]
scav I wish there was a simple way in Java to just say that String input = this Enum. [09:34]
[twisti] wat [09:35]
scav Rather List<List<String> - I just want things to happen without caring¨ [09:35]
[twisti] again - wat ? [09:36]
[twisti] boy, you are schockingly bad at describing what you want [09:36]
devish [devish!345f4b10@gateway/web/freenode/ip.52.95.75.16] has joined #java-talk [09:36]
scav stfu, im just complaining [09:36]
[twisti] complaining badly [09:36]
scav if this is the worst explanation you ever heard, i envy you [09:36]
Faux scav confirmed for acuzio. [09:36]
scav im sorry i cannot always be prefect for you, Faux [09:37]
[twisti] i cannot even guess at what your complain is with the list, but you can just use Enum.valueOf for the enum part [09:37]
[twisti] complaint* [09:37]
scav yes, i can just use that, but now i need to loop over it, and handle exceptions [09:38]
Faux You've got the music in you. [09:38]
scav what ever, i solved this 15 minutes ago, i just wanted to complain [09:38]
Faux I have an actual CS problem to solve! Well, a problem involving ranges and fenceposts. [09:41]
scav Sounds more like an agricultural problem to me. [09:42]
devish could be military [09:46]
scav Knowing Faux, I doubt that... [09:46]
freeone3000 AWS just got T4s. Blargh [09:47]
Faux Different commit rules, or different host image sizes? [09:48]
scav freeone3000: where did you read this? [09:48]
freeone3000 The graphics card. I think they're on g4s. [09:48]
Faux Oh. [09:48]
Faux Not t1.micro competitors. [09:48]
freeone3000 scav: Whitepaper published by HyperSQL extolling the virtues of their DB over Spark for large datasets [09:49]
freeone3000 no, these would compete with V100s, offering greater pref at same cost by removing all the useless stuff (like hdmi ports and shaders) [09:49]
freeone3000 it's a pci bridge, an nvlink bridge, a power supply, 2560 cuda cores, and a backplane. [09:50]
scav Hah, they clearly did not get the memo that DynamoDB is the best thing in AWS. [09:50]
freeone3000 azure *just* got V100s. [09:51]
scav Are you guys running your stuff in Azure, freeone3000? [09:52]
freeone3000 In part, yes. [09:52]
scav Are you obligated to? [09:53]
freeone3000 We're obligated to not use anybody else's clouds. [09:53]
freeone3000 This year's NeurIPS is in Vancouver [10:01]
freeone3000 because they like the advantages of Canada, but see the disadvantages of Canada in December [10:02]
KekSi T4?! [10:17]
KekSi they just started T3 like.. within the last year [10:17]
Faux KekSi has fallen into the same trap as me. [10:27]
surial sonOfRa: if it's a SIP phone, those things really don't have the CPU power to attempt to do encoding and such. [10:38]
freeone3000 Ah, they're g4.larges. [10:40]
surial sonOfRa: but isn't this rule tryin to say: We expect NO exception to be thrown; therefore if line 27 throws one, the test fails, and the reason it fails, is because line 27 was supposed to not throw, but it did? [10:41]
sonOfRa surial: no that's just how you initialize the rule in the constructor. The actual thing is the "thrown.expect(...)" [10:42]
surial ah, shit, I missed that, further proving that this is suboptimal [10:42]
fotato https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sphero/sphero-rvr-the-go-anywhere-do-anything-programmabl [10:42]
fotato fotato's title: "Sphero RVR The go anywhere, do anything programmable robot by Sphero Kickstarter" [10:42]
freeone3000 okay, shipping with an IVR system is actually pretty sweet [10:45]
fotato IVR? [10:48]
fotato i missed out on the email where i could have nabbed one for $99 :( [10:48]
freeone3000 basically you tell it to drive straight for 10 seconds and it drives straight for ten seconds [10:48]
freeone3000 this is harder than it sounds. [10:48]
fotato they've had plenty of practice. [10:49]
freeone3000 they're promising this at the programming-level, though. which would greatly simplify some tasks I might use this for. [10:49]
fotato the internet seems to think IVR stands for 'Interactive Voice Response" [10:49]
fotato there are too many TLAs. [10:49]
fotato >Intramolecular Vibrational Energy Redistribution [10:50]
fotato now i know what my next band is gonna be called. [10:50]
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freeone3000 datetime2. the sequel to time. [11:21]
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scav fotato: already tattooed your band name on my lower back [11:32]
fotato sweet. [11:33]
fotato datetime2: electric boogaloo [11:33]
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sonOfRa Oof, power outage in berlin, 30k people without power, mobile phone network also dead [12:14]
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fotato oh dear. [12:15]
Faux Bloody Chinese! [12:19]
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Faux acuzio: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47290331 [12:42]
Faux Faux's title: "UK employment hits another record high - BBC News" [12:42]
freeone3000 4% unemployment? yikes. [12:43]
Faux That's the "seeking employment" rate, which is probably down. [12:43]
Faux Our "seeking" system is brutal. [12:44]
Faux https://www.hetzner-status.de/en.html#11090 germany_irl [12:54]
Faux Faux's title: "Hetzner Online GmbH - Status-Webseite" [12:54]
sonOfRa oh [01:34]
sonOfRa someone wants their keys deleted from the gpg keyserver network http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/sks-devel/2019-02/msg00070.html [01:34]
sonOfRa sonOfRa's title: "Re: [Sks-devel] Data protection concern[Ref. RFA0751305]" [01:34]
sonOfRa this should be fun [01:34]
fotato client claiming (via a third party) that an (completely, and always) incorrect API call they're making used to work until friday [01:39]
freeone3000 sonOfRa: I like how they redacted his email, but not his name, address, or phone number. [01:39]
freeone3000 ooh, ouch, the comments on that blog post are dreadful. "use keybase.io! it's better against Snowden attacks!" that's not ... it's a *public* key you nimrods [01:43]
fotato haven't seen this variation on the joke before https://twitter.com/brenankeller/status/1068615953989087232 [01:52]
fotato fotato's title: "Brenan Keller on Twitter: "A QA engineer walks into a bar. Orders a beer. Orders 0 beers. Orders 99999999999 beers. Orders a lizard. Orders -1 beers. Orders a ueicbksjdhd. First real customer walks in and asks where the bathroom is. The bar bursts into flames, killing everyone."" [01:52]
whaley the best [01:57]
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freeone3000 Anyone know a cool docker feature? [02:55]
tang^ they have side pockets for carrying stuff in [02:56]
freeone3000 the containerization platform, not the cargo shorts [02:58]
tang^ I knew that [03:00]
freeone3000 Oh! It was a joke! The supposed way to make a funny. I see. [03:01]
tang^ I can't think of anything cool about docker... every time I attempt to use it, I get frustrated [03:02]
fotato on macos, it finds a way to use up all your memory! [03:04]
freeone3000 Yes, that's a common problem in our lab as well, which is why I'm prepping a presentation on how to make you hate it less. [03:05]
fotato "dont use docker" [03:08]
freeone3000 that is not an option [03:09]
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tang^ my use cases seem to fit VMs better than containers [03:09]
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freeone3000 we can't submit a vm to an hpc cluster [03:13]
tang^ my issue, not yours [03:13]
fotato "that sounds like a you problem" [03:14]
freeone3000 https://arxiv.org/pdf/1812.02353.pdf oh boy youtube's got a new algorithm [03:29]
freeone3000 "off-policy correction" aka "we're not reccomending conspiracy videos and elsa goes to dentist anymore" [03:30]
freeone3000 though the social paper on framelessness https://www.academia.edu/37914101/_Framelessness_OR_THE_Cultural_Logic_OF_Big_Data is probably more interesting? [03:31]
freeone3000 freeone3000's title: "" Framelessness, " OR THE Cultural Logic OF Big Data | mark andrejevic - Academia.edu" [03:31]
freeone3000 (as a side note, the notation for expectations continues to look bonkers) [03:35]
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Faux https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/19/brexit-backstop-may-rules-out-malthouse-compromise > but added that the general mood in the room had noticeably turned against no deal as a negotiating tactic [06:14]
Faux Faux's title: "Brexit backstop talks: Theresa May to present EU with new proposals | Politics | The Guardian" [06:14]
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