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| joydeep_taiga |
<squirrel "run into a funny issue. i want t"> create a java wrapper around it lol |
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| joydeep_taiga |
<squirrel "isn't my library"> ask the dev nicely |
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| joydeep_taiga |
<ricky_clarkson "Is there a common pattern for an"> you mark it internal and annotate with @PublicApi. Is the helper polymorphic? Provided by the |
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| joydeep_taiga |
> <@freenode_ricky_clarkson:matrix.org> Is there a common pattern for an inline reified extension function that needs a helper method? It seems I need to make the helper public, which is understandable but can I discourage/prevent calls to it other than with @Deprecated? |
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| joydeep_taiga |
* you mark it internal and annotate with @PublicApi. Is the helper polymorphic? What provides it? |
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| RedNifre |
How do functions inside functions work? Does the JVM bytecode support it, or are they just syntactic sugar and get inlined? |
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| noirx |
hi |
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| sxmx |
hello noirx |
[08:49]
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| noirx |
can someone suggest me a goog kotlin beginner free pdf book please |
[08:49]
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| noirx |
good |
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| dreamreal |
what makes a book "good"? |
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| noirx |
teach u good |
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| noirx |
u can learn good |
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| dreamreal |
um |
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| dreamreal |
https://riptutorial.com/Download/kotlin.pdf is free, according to google and the site itself, no idea if it's "good" or not |
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| dreamreal |
"u can learn good" isn't a good sign |
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| noirx |
ok i ll check it thanks dreams |
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| RedNifre |
Superman can learn you good. The Kotlin book might learn you well. |
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| joydeep_taiga |
<RedNifre "How do functions inside function"> it generates a class iirc |
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| cheeser |
RedNifre: those methods are actually generated on the enclosing class and then delegated to: https://javap.yawk.at/#AvCJbd/procyon |
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| cheeser |
it creates an anonymous inner class to hold the method and invokes against that. |
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| cheeser |
if bytecode reading isn't your thing, i can break down what you're seeing there. |
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| bjonnh[m] |
RedNifre: sign me in for the super(wo)man academy |
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| bjonnh[m] |
wow that procyon online thing is super useful |
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| bjonnh[m] |
thanks cheeser |
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| cheeser |
yep |
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| RedNifre |
Hm, what's the paste limit here? |
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| RedNifre |
Well, okay, here's the thing, is this code good Kotlin style and are these inner functions worth it, just to make the while loop more readable?: https://pastebin.com/pxUdnaHP |
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| RedNifre |
That's the piece that prompted me to think about inner functions. |
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| RedNifre |
It's also a piece of code that would be called a lot quickly on an android phone, so it seems like inner functions are not worth it. (Why can't I mark them as inline? That would make them zero cost in that case) |
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| cheeser |
i like it actually. makes the code semantically readable and i only need to see what thingIsTooLarge() does if I care. |
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| squirrel |
i like this. the performance cost would probably be negligible |
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| cheeser |
makes it cosnumable in smaller pieces. |
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| cheeser |
squirrel: no more of a hit than having non-nested functions. |
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| squirrel |
this says inlined nested functions can be actually slower https://discuss.kotlinlang.org/t/nested-inline-functions-any-negative-impacts/16961/2 ¯\_(?)_/¯ |
[12:39]
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| squirrel |
squirrel's title: "Nested Inline Functions - Any Negative Impacts? - #2 by darksnake - Support - Kotlin Discussions" |
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| cheeser |
those aren't inlined. they're just nested. |
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| squirrel |
the linked comment is about inlined nested functions |
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| cheeser |
yes. and RedNifre's example doesn't use inline functions. |
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| cheeser |
and until a profiler says they're (too) slow, i wouldn't worry about it. |
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| squirrel |
well they were asking whether or not nested functions are inlined and whether it's "worth it" to use nested functions in code that's called "a lot quickly" |
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| cheeser |
¯\_(?)_/¯ |
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| cheeser |
it's a premature concern at best |
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| ricky_clarkson |
joydeep_taiga: The helper is a simple function that takes a Class<T>. I'm providing it in the same file the extension method is in. |
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| ricky_clarkson |
The helper needs some package-private stuff from the Java code the extension function extends, so I don't believe inlining the helper into the inline function works |
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| ricky_clarkson |
as then callers won't be able to use it as their bytecode would be calling another package's private stuff. |
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| bjonnh[m] |
also the jvm may optimize things in ways you can't rally predict just looking at it like that. so profiling, with a real benchmarking harness ideally) is best |
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| joydeep_taiga |
<ricky_clarkson "Taiga Joydeep: The helper is a s"> Make the method @PublicApi internal fun ... |
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| joydeep_taiga |
<bjonnh[m] "also the jvm may optimize things"> ( |
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| joydeep_taiga |
* --Make the method @PublicApi internal fun ...-- |
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| joydeep_taiga |
* ~~Make the method @PublicApi internal fun ...~~ |
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| cheeser |
don't paste here |
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| joydeep_taiga |
* Make the method @PublicApi internal fun ... |
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| joydeep_taiga |
<cheeser "don't paste here"> Who pasted? |
[05:12]
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| joydeep_taiga |
Oh |
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| joydeep_taiga |
This is bridged to IRC isn't it |
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| joydeep_taiga |
Sorry, i guess replies show up as pasting the original content |
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| cheeser |
i dunno but it's an awful lot of noise |
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| joydeep_taiga |
Sorry |
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| JorgenV |
Hi |
[05:36]
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| JorgenV |
So I am new at Android Development, and Kotlin was highly suggested |
[05:36]
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| JorgenV |
but my question is, can I use both Java and Kotlin at the same time? in the same project? |
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| JorgenV |
Can I call a Java method from a Kotlin method? and vice versa? |
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| squirrel |
yes to all questions |
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| JorgenV |
) thank you |
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| ricky_clarkson |
JorgenV: You can find Java from Kotlin and Kotlin from Java documentation on the main kotlinlang site. |
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| ricky_clarkson |
joydeep_taiga: Are you using this channel through discord or something (no idea if that's a thing)? |
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| RedNifre |
Inlined nested functions being slower makes no sense to me, unless I'm missunderstanding what inlining means or if the comment doesn't apply to functions that are only used once. |
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| RedNifre |
But thanks for the insights, I'll use nested functions more frequently for naming complex pieces of code then. |
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| FuzzyBottom |
This is something I am wondering about with whether or not I should learn coding. I am lousy at math, and on codewars, it seems that even level 7 involves a lot of math equations. Minus game programming, will this be an issue for someone like me? Thanks... |
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| FuzzyBottom |
A better question might be, should I look into learning web development over proper coding if the math would be an issue (HTML, CSS etc)? |
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| RedNifre |
I'm not sure, I think you still need to be somewhat good at logical thinking to be good at programming. I also think that this can be trained. |
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| RedNifre |
What do you mean by math? Juggling quarternions to render 3D graphics, or avoiding out of bounds exceptions? |
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| FuzzyBottom |
The logical thinking is not an issue. I have been into networking and the hardware side of computers for 27 years. I am thinking more along the lines of equations that the average person would look at and have their brain turn off. |
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| FuzzyBottom |
https://www.codewars.com/kata/562f91ff6a8b77dfe900006e |
[07:18]
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| FuzzyBottom |
FuzzyBottom's title: "Going to the cinema | Codewars" |
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| FuzzyBottom |
here is an example. It's needing to know things that even after seeing the answer, I was needing to ask this question. |
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| ricky_clarkson |
FuzzyBottom: Programming doesn't involve a lot of maths unless you're writing code to do naturally mathematical things. |
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| ricky_clarkson |
Game programming can be fairly mathematical, depending on the engine you're using. Same for machine learning. |
[07:31]
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| ricky_clarkson |
most of it is logic, reasoning, not specifically numbers. |
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| FuzzyBottom |
ricky: Okay, I just seem quite lost working at the codewars challenges when so many of them seem to be math based. I do appreciate the input. |
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